US Victory Museum Posted December 18, 2014 #1 Posted December 18, 2014 [9 pages to follow] I recently had the good fortune to acquire one of the earlyRock Island Arsenal (RIA) produced cavalry bandoleers (alsobandolier) manufactured for the cavalry board for evaluationto be accepted as part of the 1912 new cavalry equipments.Between 1910 and 1912, a few types were produced in smallnumbers for field trials. The earliest type I have seen wasa c.1910; the company WPG (What Price Glory) produces afascimilie (photo below) for re-enactors. The belt has 12 pockets for 30.-06 (7.62x63mm) on clips,two per pocket. The central pocket is pouch-like and ismeant for the .45LC cartridge of the M1909 Colt Revolver.This bandoleer buckles like a trouser belt, as observedin the photo.On Feb 15th 2000, Ebay seller Pahaskabooks sold an originalfor $2,000.00.
US Victory Museum Posted December 18, 2014 Author #2 Posted December 18, 2014 The variation that I found was likely produced in 1911 orearly 1912, as it has 10 (5/side) pockets for rifle clips,2 (1/side) bellows type pocket for loose .45ACP pistolcartridges, and a central pocket with stitching to dividethree internal pouches for loaded 1911 magazines for theM1911 Colt Pistol .45ACP.I had seen this bandoleer in one of Mr. Hughes' photos ofhis early cavalry material. Prior to posting this, Kurt andI discussed these bandoleers. This type was produced invery limited numbers and was only field tested by two troops(Troop B & Troop D) of the 11th Cavalry.Mine is marked B 11 6, Kurt's is marked B 11 7Troop B, 11th Cavaly, troopers #6 & #7!
US Victory Museum Posted December 18, 2014 Author #3 Posted December 18, 2014 This photo is of Mr. Hughes' cavalry display. He uses aP1910 Woolen Blouse. This was the last variation of thearmy uniform that had the bellows style pockets, the fallingcollar (NB: Double Disk), and French Cuffs. He displays arare trial holster, also for the 1912 equipment (that, likethe bandoleer was not adopted.) The holster is attached tothe 1909 mounted cartridge belt. His bandoleer still retainsthe bayonet sheath (krag-type) used for the trials, althoughthe .30-06 Springfield was already the new weapon of choicefor the army since 1903. An early pattern campaign hatcompletes his display.
US Victory Museum Posted December 18, 2014 Author #4 Posted December 18, 2014 For the purpose of my display, since I didn't want to digthrough my buckets o' junk for a matching blouse, hat orequipment, I used a P1912 spec 1126 blouse that would havebeen more closely associated with the dressage for the later1916 punitive expedition cavalry troops. The P1909 mountedcartridge belt is suspended w/ 1907 suspenders. An early1913 campaign hat (NB: String ties) completes my ersatzdisplay.
US Victory Museum Posted December 18, 2014 Author #5 Posted December 18, 2014 The 1910-1912 bandoleers were considered failures by the1912 cavalry board. The RIA produced gear used cotton webof insufficient strength for practical field use. Theadoption of a pointed projectile in 1906 update for the.30 Springfield (i.e. .30-06 / 7.62x63mm) caused the thinweb material to fail when bullets were pressed against thematerial in day-to-day activities.As a result a design that used 12 rifle clip pockets(6/ side) and three horizontal pockets for carrying loose.45ACP ammunition for the 1911 pistol was recommended andsubsequently produced as the 1914 bandoleer, the one mostof us are most familiar with that has the rimmed eaglesnap for those produced through c. Jan/Feb 1917. Afterthat date, those 1914 bandoleers were produced with 'liftthe dot' snaps. Many of these bandoleers can be found marked with cavalryunits called up for the Great War, which were then re-assignedto fight as dismounted or as infantry units. The machinegunand the conditions of trench warfare had religated cavalryas nearly obsolete on the modern battlefield.
US Victory Museum Posted December 18, 2014 Author #6 Posted December 18, 2014 Dispite minimal cavalry activity in AEF zones of the Europeantheater of war, additional contracts were awarded for theproduction of additional bandoleers. Russell, a competitorof Mills, produced a variation of the 1914 design known asthe M1918 bandoleer.This bandoleer is uniquely identifiable by its shape andbelt tab. Whereas the prior type bandoleers were shapedin an arc, the 1918 was linear and "V" shaped, and the belttab was radiused. The P1914 can be found with eagle snaps or lift-the-dottype fastners for the pockets; however, the P1918 arelift-the-dot only.
US Victory Museum Posted December 18, 2014 Author #8 Posted December 18, 2014 At a future date, I'll re-shoot these items using naturallight; LED room light and the camera flash have greatlydistorted the colors. (That's a 1904 Blanket underneath!)The bottom bandoleer, produced by RIA uses a dark khakicolor. The middle uses a dye mixture somewhere betweenthe olive green used on early 1914 pattern bandoleers andthe WWI light khaki used c. 1917-1918. The top P1918is the light khaki found on all WWI web gear.--End of post. --
Dr_rambow Posted December 18, 2014 #10 Posted December 18, 2014 Excellent topic and collection! If this is the one I think it is (sold on ebay recently?), you got a pretty good deal (I’d never seen one before). I’ve since wondered why the magazine pouches weren’t retained in the later versions. The half-moon clips are enough of a pain in the butt to load for the 1917 revolver, so trying to juggle a magazine, a pistol, and the loose ammo mush have been a nightmare. I’d love to see the daylight color comparison when you have time.
RustyCanteen Posted December 18, 2014 #11 Posted December 18, 2014 Nice collection. This bandoleer was (according to a private conversation with the late Carter Rila) part of the 1912 equipment trials. It was therefore experimental. "ArmyJunk" posted these photos in the past showing views of the bandoleer as well as associated bayonet and belt. Carter Rila had never seen the photos, but he had found the report that went with them as he related in the conversation.
mattsmilitary Posted December 18, 2014 #12 Posted December 18, 2014 WOW Awesome stuff and great thread. Thanks for posting!
US Victory Museum Posted December 19, 2014 Author #13 Posted December 19, 2014 Dear RustyCanteen: Thank you for posting those photos. I bought a CD off Ebay from an individual who photographed the 1912 board study and results, as well as the photos submitted in 1912. The ones that you posted are among them; I did not want to post his work without permission, so I omitted them from my post. He's the same guy selling the 1,500+ drawings on CD from the Quartermaster Depot. There are expiramental M1912 Pistol Belts with pouches that I had NEVER seen before. The study is well worth the trivial price just for the photos.
RustyCanteen Posted December 19, 2014 #14 Posted December 19, 2014 Dear RustyCanteen: Thank you for posting those photos. I bought a CD off Ebay from an individual who photographed the 1912 board study and results, as well as the photos submitted in 1912. The ones that you posted are among them; I did not want to post his work without permission, so I omitted them from my post. He's the same guy selling the 1,500+ drawings on CD from the Quartermaster Depot. There are expiramental M1912 Pistol Belts with pouches that I had NEVER seen before. The study is well worth the trivial price just for the photos. Thanks for the heads-up about the cd; I had no idea there was such a thing. Now I will need to order one! Those photos were posted years ago, but they are great. I suppose the ones on the cd are higher resolution?
US Victory Museum Posted December 19, 2014 Author #15 Posted December 19, 2014 The Ebay usename is 245thCAC for the guy selling the 1912 cavalry new equipments report on CD. Since he posted this photo on Ebay, I'll add it here. Although one cannot see the bandoleer in this photo, it is possible to see the bayonet that is attached to it behind his shoulder.
world war I nerd Posted December 19, 2014 #16 Posted December 19, 2014 For what it's worth, here's another photo of a cavalry trooper wearing the 1914 Cavalry Bandoleer.
Shenkursk Posted December 19, 2014 #17 Posted December 19, 2014 It was rough, but we had one several years ago:
Dragoon Posted December 23, 2014 #19 Posted December 23, 2014 Hi Mike Thanks for the interesting post and photos of your bandoleer, sorry I did not reply earlier. The bandoleer in my display above is the one sold by AGM a few years ago, I had been hoping to find one for years so was pleased when that one came up for sale, it cleaned up very well. In fact we are lucky to have one in any condition. I would like to locate a trial belt to accompany my display, I know the chances are slim but never say never as I thought that about the bandoleer. I do have to apologise about an error I made in my message to you, my example is D troop not B, sorry for the mix up. I know I mentioned some photos I have of these in my message to you, I see some have been posted above below is another you might find interesting.
US Victory Museum Posted November 16, 2019 Author #21 Posted November 16, 2019 As an update to this old post, I am posting these two photos of abandoleer I added to my collection.Mills produced the early bandoleers, which were olive drab in color andutilized the eagle snaps for closure. Around Dec. 1916, Mills switchedto khaki dyes, so some khaki bandoleers can be found with eagle snaps,which were still being used as late as Feb. 1917. During WWI both Millsand Russell were contracted to produce bandoleers in khaki tan.This one is likely experimental, as it is marked as produced by Rock IslandArsenal in 1917; upon a closer look, there is something incongruous aboutthe marking and the bandoleer itself. Scroll back-'n'-forth between thetwo posted photos and see whether you notice.Hint: It's not the color.
US Victory Museum Posted November 16, 2019 Author #23 Posted November 16, 2019 Did you catch it?A closer look reveals that this is a Model 1918 bandoleer with a 1917production date.The M1918 bandoleers used canvas web flaps, with woven cotton pockets. The metal end of the belt has a radius, unlike the M1914s which used squaretabs and were all canvas; moreover, the M1918s were assembled in a "V"configuration, whereas the M1914 were rounded so as to fit closely to the body.In this attached photo the two lower belts are M1914s, one an early olivedrab with eagle snaps; the other a later khaki tan with lift-the-dotfasteners. The one at the top is a M1918, and is so called because thisis what Rock Island Arsenal called this design on the blueprints theysupplied to both Mills and Russell.
abqpropguy Posted January 1, 2021 #24 Posted January 1, 2021 I picked this belt up today. It feels like a M1914.....but it only has 9 pockets (1 flap has been cut off). Do you think it was cut down and the strap was reattached?
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 2 #25 Posted February 2 Hello, this is a bandoleer I picked up recently and it has me stumped on exactly what model and time period It would be from.? or is it maybe a modified or experimental version? As you can see it has two different colors in the material, has lift a dot snaps but oddly a leather strap to connect both ends? There are a few markings. I followed under some of the flaps, but other than that nothing else. Appreciate any help.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now