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THE MOST RAREST USMC MARINE OFFICER DRESS COLLAR SET CIRCA 1877


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All, frankly I am dubious of the claim made here. I for one do not share the same sediments of the seller as to the originality of these devices. So few from that period are known to exist, further the impeccable appearance and photography do little to instill anymore faith in the fact that these emblems survived 120 years in this condition... let alone the lack of quality on should expect to see in a jeweler made set from that period and no marks on the reverse? Would not a Company from that period not mark these?. Interestingly the bids are already a 1K. Thoughts anyone? think.gif

 

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From the sellers description: "CAME OUT OF THE T.W.W (TRELON-WELDON-WEIL) 1865-1884 CATALOG, OVERSEAS COMPANY OWN BY H.M (HARTOG & MARCHAND) BUTTONS , BADGES AND MILITARY INSIGNIAS MAKERS."

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The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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the eBay auction number is 220254344997

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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Been holding this back for awhile to see if more of these suddenly appeared on the market. I got this one a few months back from a guy who clears out attics and basements and the such. So, if they're fake, they're an older one. Possibly sand casted? I'll leave that to those of you with more experience in sand casting.

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-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
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...

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-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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here's a side by side and overlapping comparrison with a known original from the collection of forum member USMCaviator (Mike Manifor) that was posted in the reference forum

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-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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Good comparisons ......But Mike's is a Hat badge I do believe. The continent design similarity is certainly there. As I recall, Tim, you didn't have to turn over the keys to your car for the one you picked up............so maybe......... ;):D

Semper Fi....Bobg

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Since our Forum member BOLO appears to be the seller of these EGAs perhaps he will tell us here on the Forum more about where and when he acquired them and give us some better pics. That way we can better evaluate them. We are entitled to ask questions about such rare birds. If they are the "real thing" they are certainly most rare. Comments, BOLO, please?

Thanks......Bobgee

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Since our Forum member BOLO appears to be the seller of these EGAs perhaps he will tell us here on the Forum more about where and when he acquired them and give us some better pics. That way we can better evaluate them. We are entitled to ask questions about such rare birds. If they are the "real thing" they are certainly most rare. Comments, BOLO, please?

Thanks......Bobgee

 

hello,

 

Im not the seller of these EGAs

 

:)

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hello,

 

Im not the seller of these EGAs

 

:)

 

Well, sorry then. Your Avatar is a pic from the EBay seller of these EGAs.

Bobgee

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Sorry for the delay, I just got off as DNCO...

 

To answer the questions, I held out after talking with Darrell. We wanted to see if any more of these mysteriously surfaced out of the woodwork. I did get it from an eBay dealer in Maine who is a true picker. Having looked at his previous auctions and current ones from then on, I have seen no more than the occasional military piece here and there, as well as a hodge podge of stuff. He told me he believes this came from the attic of an older woman (though he cleans out too many to know for sure), and he honestly knew absolutely nothing about it. I got it cheap, it was grossly mislisted, as I recall. This attic find leads me to believe that it is an older repro, and probably not based off the one in your collection, Major. Though of course I could be wrong. However, the biggest difference I notice in mine to yours is the anchor and wing angles. To be honest, I bought it suspecting perhaps a sweetheart pin. But I could be mistaken there, as well, and probably am

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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To get this back in track: this thread is about an EGA, although it could be argued that questions about the validity of an item can be influenced by other items from the same source - and, sellers of old, rare, scarce and unusual militaria (and all other collectibles for tha matter) have to understand that questions will be raised and doubts expressed and that if you feel the need to run to your lawyer every time someone questions you stuff, then perhaps you'd be better off in doing something else, baking bread perhaps.

 

That being said, this is, again, about the EGA and I'd like to see someone summarize what they see as wrong with this EGA and if someone can provide information to validate it, that too is welcome.


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All,

 

This thread on topic on a set of EGA's from the seller has been out of circulation for a few days because the original intent of the starting post by me had desintigrated into allot genral retoric regaring all the lots bein offered. The original thread has now been split and we can go on about discussing topic specfic... EGA's Please keep any reference to other items out of this thread, thank you!

 

Please note the the following comments from admin I pulled from this thread when it was closed:

 

FROM ADMIN:

 

I'm not going to comment about the authenticity of his items. But I did want to make a comment about two points:

 

(1) I strongly encourage all members to please make sure of your facts before you point fingers saying someone is selling fakes. A little searching on williamsmilitaryrelics' auctions would have shown that our member and the seller did not appear to be one in the same. False accusations can severely hurt someone's reputation.

 

(2) Please make sure to state the HOW and WHY you think something is fake, reproduction, or "messed with." If the clasp is wrong or the color is off, then state that. But, please do not make general "its fake" statements. It helps all of us learn.

 

(3) And please stay on topic. Believe me, I know it is hard some times. But if you get off track, please try to get back on. It is like trying to follow two conversations at one time - it's confusing. So, please be courteous to the original poster and help to answer the question asked. If you want to talk about a seller, another item, etc., feel free to start another topic.

 

THEREFORE... KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ON TARGET AND DIRECT YOUR REPLIES TO SPECIFIC ITEMS AND STATE YOUR REASONING AS TO WHY ANY ARTICLES ARE FAKES, REPRO'S AND OR "MESSED WITH" AND NOT NECESSARILY "DISPLAY ITEMS" AS THE SELLER REPRESENTS.

 

An update, from the seller ebay auction: The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the minimum bid or reserve amount. The last bid before the auction closed was $1075. pinch.gif

 

s/f Darrell


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Interesting to note, these did not reach the reserve set for the auction yesterday. This morning they are back with a sell-it-now price of $2500. OR you may wish to make an offer. Any takers?


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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20 bucks?

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
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  • 4 months later...

All, spent two hours w/ Tim today - most enjoyable visit! And we plan to visit again soon. The reason for my post here, I got to see this pin Tim posted here. I've got to say, candidly we may have mis-judged these emblems. I studied Tim's emblem under loop for a lengthly time and whatever mis-givings I had are for the most part vanquished - I still have a bit of reservation, that likely has more to do with not having seen anything like this before - and seeing it for the first time. That said, upon our next visit Tim will bring the emblem in where I can take photo's for this thread using my camera/PC to share w/ y'all.

 

BTW - broke out these jewels from General Hills items for him to look at - he too is inclined to think Chinese. There is something to be said about seeing some of these emblems with your own eye's. s/f Darrell

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The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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anyone happened to stumble upon that catalog to see if these really are depicted there?

 

T.W.W (TRELON-WELDON-WEIL) 1865-1884 CATALOG

 

Darrel, once again, I love those emblems. They practically scream Asiatic style, and judging by his history in China, I'm thinking it's a safe bet, modeled off one of the many sets of 1904s you got with the group

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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anyone happened to stumble upon that catalog to see if these really are depicted there?

 

Tim, I spent some time in goggle trying to ID these firms he mentioned in the auction. 1) From the sellers description: "CAME OUT OF THE T.W.W (TRELON-WELDON-WEIL) 1865-1884 CATALOG, 2) OVERSEAS COMPANY OWN BY H.M (HARTOG & MARCHAND) BUTTONS , BADGES AND MILITARY INSIGNIAS MAKERS."

 

Well, the first firm does show up in a few French web & with goggle translation one can read them OK - there is simply nothing that shows up as them making any sort of military insignia. Thats not to say they did not... if so the info / pictures have not made its way onto the web. There is allot on their period buttons from that time.

 

And the second firm... well that shows up no where, not matter what the search terms used.

 

Nonetheless... I still like it, a few reservations that does not make me feel totally comfortable. The uniform reg's of 1892, did address this specific example (shown on page 16 of the Museum TM) "For the undress cost of Officers - of metal and one half size adapted for epauletttes... to be worn on each side of the collar".

 

In the end, I suppose it leaves us groping for more information about these (and yours). s/f Darrell


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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