world war I nerd Posted December 29, 2014 Share #26 Posted December 29, 2014 You are correct that a runner would be unencumbered by the usual assortment of infantry equipment. However, in addition to the pistol belt & holster, suspended from the belt would be his personal first aid dressing carried in its olive drab pouch & canteen. He would also be carrying a gasmask housed in its satchel worn in the "alert" position. To mark him as a runner he would be wearing a red armband on his lower left sleeve. Likely he would just carry the message in a shirt pocket. But if he was carrying multiple dispatches, a russet leather or olive drab canvas dispatch case would be utilized. The dispatch case shown in the photo was made from both heavy olive drab cotton & russet leather. Here are some photos that may help: 1. 1917 Field Shoes 2. Red "Runners" Armband adopted by the AEF early in 1918 3. Placement of the runners armband ( lower left cuff) 4. Early gasmask satchel 5. Placement of the gasmask satchel (on the chest in the alert position, with the snap fasteners against the chest) 6. Dispatch case should you wish to include it. Good luck ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 29, 2014 Share #27 Posted December 29, 2014 Runner's armband: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 29, 2014 Share #28 Posted December 29, 2014 Gasmask satchel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 29, 2014 Share #29 Posted December 29, 2014 Gasmask placement: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 29, 2014 Share #30 Posted December 29, 2014 Dispatch case: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSkinner Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share #31 Posted December 30, 2014 Hello WWI Nerd - Wonderful information, and photo reference Thanks again! As I am designing the illustration, the first aid pouch and gas mask case may not be visible, since Private Edwards is facing slightly away from us as he mounts a small hillock on the way to perform his mission. His canteen on the back of his pistol belt will be visible as will his holster at his right hip. As it is July, and he is stripped down to his OD shirt, with his sleeves rolled up to about his elbows, I don't know what to do about the runner's armband. Even if he had his service coat on and the armband in place, it might not even be visible because of his distance from us the viewer, as we look at the scene. When the sketch is approved by the author, I'll post it here. I'm curious about what the function of the runner's armband might be? Was it to signal to friendly troops that this lone person is a runner and not someone simply skeedaddling? Was there little worry that this red armband might be seen by the enemy as signaling that the wearer may be a valuable person to capture or kill?Thanks much for the valuable photos! Luckily, I still have few odd pieces left over from my militaria collection that I accumulated over the past 40 years. Ironic that now that I could use it, most of my WWI collection has gone the way of eBay this past year. - C. Skinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 30, 2014 Share #32 Posted December 30, 2014 The purpose of the runner's armband was pretty much as you thought. General Pershing adopted the British practice of wearing narrow armbands in different colors (each denoting a specific duty) to signify that the men wearing them, who may be going in the opposite direction of an ongoing attack, were on official business. I suspect the special duty armbands were intentionally made narrower than a brassard (which was worn on the upper arm) and placed low on the sleeve to reduce their visibility on the battlefield. Whether or not the armbands were widely worn in combat is not know. However, photographs showing them in use are quite rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavdoc83 Posted December 30, 2014 Share #33 Posted December 30, 2014 Is there anything in the record of troops fighting in shirtsleeves? I would think that troops would need to be covered up as much as possible to protect from the effects of gas. Also, summer in Europe is not nearly as warm as summer in the US. Furthermore, folks in that time period were more used to being covered up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavdoc83 Posted December 30, 2014 Share #34 Posted December 30, 2014 I just checked. The average temperature in France in July of 1918 was 16.7 degrees Celsius. That's about 62 degrees Fahrenheit. It was a pretty wet month as well. I'd bet that most everyone was wearing their coat, unless they were engaged in some serious fatigue work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 31, 2014 Share #35 Posted December 31, 2014 That's an excellent point Doc. Even if the weather was warm, troops serving at the front would at the very least have kept their shirt sleeves rolled down to protect them from the caustic effects of mustard gas. For what it's worth, here's a photo posted a while back by Belleauwood of a Navy corpsman during the battle for Belleau Wood wearing the flannel shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSkinner Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share #36 Posted December 31, 2014 Thanks for the info regarding the weather in that sector in July. I'll post a photo supplied by the author of the book which shows men of Philip Edwards' regt.,the 102nd Infantry Regiment, 26th Division, on July 11, 1918. Ten days before Philip was killed. Some are in their shirtsleeves, though not with them rolled up. It looked like that day was warm. I'm now rethinking my original sketch of the last moments of Philip Edwards which originally showed him more out in the open. From contemporary records and current research, it seems that Private Edwards was located in the northern part of Breteuil Woods between July, 21st and 22nd, and as a runner, Private Edwards was carrying messages between the different units of his battlion to Battalion Headquarters in Breteuil Wood. All the open fields in the front were under heavy german artillery and machine gun fire, so those open areas were to be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavdoc83 Posted December 31, 2014 Share #37 Posted December 31, 2014 Those are some great pics. I really like the one of the corpsman. Both of them portray men who are apparently off the line, though (helmets off, masks either off or not worn in the ready position). I'm still looking for photos or written records of men in combat or on the line in shirtsleeves. I'm sure that it may have happened. (Shoot, they'd just got finished traipsing all over northern Mexico wearing just shirts and sweaters.) I'm also pretty sure that it would be unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSkinner Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share #38 Posted January 1, 2015 Attached is a page from a rotogravure section from an unknown publication, unknown date. (Possibly a newspaper section) The page was being sold online with none of the publication particulars identified. If the captions are accurate, then we can see elements of the 42nd Division in the "Lucy-Le-Bocage in the Chateau-Thierry sector." Notice the top photo … the man in shirtsleeves rolled up but what also looks like a long-sleeved undershirt protruding underneath that. It looks like the group has dropped their field packs and belts, but still have their gas masks at the alert position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSkinner Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share #39 Posted January 1, 2015 On this webpage (link below) if you scroll down to the 20th image you'll see more fighting in shirtsleeves. (again with what looks like the sleeves rolled up and a long-sleeved undershirt showing) It's simply titled "The road to Bouresches." with no attribution. The web page is about "Marne 1918: Château Thierry, Belleau Wood." It would be nice to know more about this photo. Link: http://pierreswesternfront.punt.nl/content/2008/07/belleau-wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #40 Posted January 1, 2015 Here are some photos of USMC personnel shot during the battle for Belleau Wood. This is a wounded Marine coming out of an ambulance at a field hospital behind the lines. Note that the combat Marine is wearing an Army OD service coat, while the hospital orderlies are in shirts with the sleeves rolled down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #41 Posted January 1, 2015 Another photo of wounded coming out of Belleau Wood. All of the stretcher bearers and medical personnel at the first aid post situated behind the lines appear to be wearing shirts with the sleeves rolled down. Also a photograph of an unknown artillery battery near Belleau Wood. All of the men are wearing shirts with the sleeves rolled down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #42 Posted January 1, 2015 Another artillery battery in which two men are wearing service coats and the other a flannel shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #43 Posted January 1, 2015 A company of Marines moving up to the woods, all wearing service coats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #44 Posted January 1, 2015 USMC officers at a U.S. position somewhere in the woods, two of whom are wearing service coats and the other a wool sweater (?) under a leather jerkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #45 Posted January 1, 2015 USMC ration detail bringing hot chow up to the trenches. Both men are wearing service coats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #46 Posted January 1, 2015 Probably taken shortly after the battle for Belleau Wood was over, the weather must have turned cold as this Marine is wearing an overcoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #47 Posted January 1, 2015 Also taken after the conclusion of the battle, this photo shows a group of USMC officers wearing service coats, raincoats and trench coats. In all of the above photos the combat troops with the exception of the artillery crews were all wearing service coats, while many of the support troops located behind the fighting are wearing flannel shirts, all with the sleeves rolled down. In regard to the image posted to the above link, the rolled up sleeves was likely the result of "artistic license" on the part of the artist who possibly assumed that the weather would be warm during the month of June. To me it's doubtful that a runner would have abandoned his service coat while carrying dispatches because: 1. It would protect him from mustard gas. 2. It would be needed for warmth at night or if the weather turned cold. 3. There was no guarantee that he would be returning to the exact spot where he left it. Upon reporting to the brigade or regimental command post (CP), he may have directed to deliver a message to an adjacent unit that was not his own. 4. While delivering the missive his company CP may have moved to another location and he would not be able to go back and get it. 5. He could have been cut off or prevented from returning to his CP due to enemy activity, and would not want to spend the night in a cold foxhole without the benefit of his woolen service coat, especially if the weather was cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSkinner Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share #48 Posted January 1, 2015 Thanks for all the photos of the various troops, WWI Nerd. Very helpful! All your reasons for Private Edwards to keep his service coat on make sense, especially his being in a very volatile sector. Not sure what image you were referencing when you mentioned "artistic license" since it was a photo and not an artist's representation. I was wrong about the caption to the photo, however. (it's a bit difficult to tell what caption goes with which photo on this person's webpage) the caption I believe is: "On 5 June 1918 Brigadier-General James Harbord, commander of the 4th Marines Brigade, ordered to attack Bouresches from Lucy le Bocage."It's still not a very helpful caption since it still seems not very specific, and the situation could be a very unique one considering there's one soldier with his helmet in his hand and his rifle slung, even though his buddies are very much on alert for whatever danger might be within the crumbling walls.Thanks for all the help on this particular illustration. Private Edwards will be shown in his service coat, pistol belt, gas mask (at alert) runner armband, and helmet, and being handed a dispatch case by an officer in a shell hole.I'm also working on an illustration of Pvt. Edwards in a trench, sometime in late winter/early spring, with his old friend from Connecticut, John Simmons, who survived the war.I'll be posting one illustration I finished - The one so many of you folks on this forum helped out with when we were all trying nail down the issuance of overseas caps - This illustration show the three friends from CT on board the RMS Adriatic, shipping out from the Hoboken Army Transport Docks on October 27, 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Share #49 Posted January 1, 2015 Sorry for the confusion about the term "artistic license". When I went to the link, I came across a painting showing Marines wearing flannel shirts with the sleeves rolled up attacking German positions in Belleau Wood ... I mistook that for the photo you were referring to. I guess I didn't scroll down far enough. I also noticed that I didn't attach the photo of USMC officers wearing coats that I mentioned in post no. 47, so I'll attach here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSkinner Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share #50 Posted January 1, 2015 Thanks for the nice photo of the Marines wearing the various coats, WWI Nerd! Attached here is the finished illustration that triggered the part of this thread about when it might have been that the overseas caps supplanted the campaign hats. This illustration depicts Private Edwards and his two buddies on the stern section of the RMS Adriatic as they depart for the Hoboken Army Transport Docks on October 27, 1917, bound for Liverpool and from there to France. Much time was spent researching the Adriatic and devising a good angle to depict the departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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