cthomas Posted December 17, 2014 Share #26 Posted December 17, 2014 My apologies... It appears he has yet to mount any service chevrons. Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted December 17, 2014 Share #27 Posted December 17, 2014 Now that is something new! I hate to speculate, but in the case of your photo I wonder if it might instead have been intended to represent previous service? He looks a little older, and has absolutely no service stripes; so that makes me think that he served previously and was discharged, came back during the latter part of WWI and then was discharged again. It might have been his way of saying "Hey, I did my part" even though he doesn't have the overseas/stateside stripes to show for his service. Then again, he has a campaign hat which is either a studio prop, or means this is probably pre-dating the service stripes. If that is the case then I don't have a clue what he is doing. I tend to think this was taken before mid-1918, but the discharge stripe and star don't really make a lot of sense. Any i.d. on the photo? Thanks for adding that photo to WWI Nerd's excellent thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share #28 Posted December 17, 2014 Maybe the guy joined or was drafted late in the war and didn't qualify for any stateside chevrons? Since the light blue chevron for less than six months service was only authorized for those who served in the Theater of Operations, i.e. overseas, he opted to wear an early enlistment star to show that he served, even if it was for less than six months? Considering RCs train of thought maybe he was a lance corporal down on the border in 1916, and upon reenlisting dusted off his old service coat bearing an obsolete lance corporal chevron? Quite a conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted December 17, 2014 Share #29 Posted December 17, 2014 It sure is a conundrum. The campaign hat has me thinking it is early, unless it was just a studio provided prop. It could definitely be any of those theories. Whatever the story, I like the picture! If the image is named there is a small chance we might learn something from it yet. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share #30 Posted December 17, 2014 Due to the material and cut, his uniform doesn't look issued to me. It looks private purchase or tailor made, but it appears to bear the older style rimless buttons. I can't quite figure out what shoes he's wearing. They look similar to 1912 Russet Leather Shoes, but they have lacing hooks at the top. lacing hooks were on the 1904 Russet Garrison Shoe, but that shoe was replaced with the 1912 Russet Shoe Army wide in 1914. However, I've seen a lot of post war photos of Doughboys in Germany wearing a similar style of russet shoe with lacing hooks. Uniform wise this guy's all over the map. I enjoy the challenge of unscrambling a uniform, but I don't think we can take this any further. Can we? I guess these crazy combinations is what makes one love or hate the odd uniforms found in so many photos from the the WW I era! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_rambow Posted December 17, 2014 Share #31 Posted December 17, 2014 The buttons look more like vegetable ivory than early rimless buttons. Also, the shirt also looks like a thinner cotton or muslin, rather than wool. His uniform may be entirely private purchase from head to toe! My guess is that he is the poor sap that got stuck stateside but had the money to get a fancy tailored uniform (a 3rd lieutenant, to quote The Big Parade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted December 17, 2014 Share #32 Posted December 17, 2014 Guys, I'd sure like to comment further, but I'm running short on time... I do need to check the backside of that portrait again. However, I'm pretty sure there wad no ID on he reverse. I was going to suggest the star was an photographer enhancement because of the unusual contrast to the rest of the setting. But if you take a closer look at the cropped version of my scan, you'll notice some motion blur along the bottom edge of the star. Thank you all for your comments! -Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted December 18, 2014 Share #33 Posted December 18, 2014 Another great, most informative thread! Thanks.....Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted December 18, 2014 Share #34 Posted December 18, 2014 While going through some things I found this: From: Facts for Patriots, Mrs. Clyde Davis Connelly. 1919. The star described is white; not gold. But it labeled as a "Enlistment" star. So it seems that all terminologies may be correct since they apparently apply to different stars. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted December 18, 2014 Share #35 Posted December 18, 2014 I also found this: From: History of Texas World War Heroes, section on Dallas County. The information that pertains to this discussion is the sentence stating that he "..Received gold star and 3 service stripes." Now, the 42nd Division was authorized I believe around 5 or 6 campaign clasps for the Victory Medal. Since the notice states he 'participated in all' of the 42nd's battles it seems clear the 'gold star' does not reference campaign clasps. He was in fact listed as having been 'gassed' too. The 42nd Division arrived overseas in November 1917 which would place it in the '100,000' overseas group. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share #36 Posted December 19, 2014 Nice job RC, you've done what nobody else could ... you identified the purpose of the white or silver star! In case nobody read what RC posted. It's an ENLISTMENT STAR not a Early Enlistment Star. It signified that the wearer had volunteered or enlisted in the Army instead of waiting to be drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted December 19, 2014 Share #37 Posted December 19, 2014 Thanks WWINerd! Now I just want to find period proof for the gold stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted December 19, 2014 Share #38 Posted December 19, 2014 Nice job RC, you've done what nobody else could ... you identified the purpose of the white or silver star! In case nobody read what RC posted. It's an ENLISTMENT STAR not a Early Enlistment Star. It signified that the wearer had volunteered or enlisted in the Army instead of waiting to be drafted. Let me also congratulate you, RC, for helping us identify that unusual white star. I'm extremely grateful for your effort! World War I Nerd (and all!), thank you for all of the discussion on the topic at hand. We've just solved a 90+ yr old mystery. Good job. -Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted December 19, 2014 Share #39 Posted December 19, 2014 Let me also congratulate you, RC, for helping us identify that unusual white star. I'm extremely grateful for your effort! World War I Nerd (and all!), thank you for all of the discussion on the topic at hand. We've just solved a 90+ yr old mystery. Good job. -Chuck Thanks, I was happy to find it. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share #40 Posted December 27, 2014 This might not even be an enlistment star, but it sure looks like there's an additional insignia placed over this 7th Division officer's service chevron. The photo was posted by Belleau Wood elsewhere on the forum. Next to the photo is an enlargement of the service chevron and an example of what I think might be above it. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share #41 Posted December 27, 2014 Rusty Canteen pointed out this Air Service enlisted man's service coat that was for sale on Ebay. It features U.S. and Signal Corps collar discs, Air Service sergeant first class chevron, mechanic's prop, a pair of red discharge chevrons, and three silver service chevrons with another example of the white/silver enlistment star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted December 27, 2014 Share #42 Posted December 27, 2014 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/202900-world-war-i-war-service-chevrons/page-4 this post has quite a few pictures of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayhawkhenry Posted January 1, 2015 Share #43 Posted January 1, 2015 Does anyone have photos of sailors wearing similar insignia ? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share #44 Posted January 1, 2015 The U.S. Navy did have a star insignia that was worn on the lower sleeve however, it signified something entirely different than the enlistment star. Unfortunately, I don't recall exactly what it represented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted January 1, 2015 Share #45 Posted January 1, 2015 WWI Nerd, the star above the officer's cuff braid would indicate a line officer as opposed to a medical, staff or other specialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share #46 Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks Erick, for identifying the purpose of the Navy star. Do you know if enlisted men of the Navy ever wore a similar star on the lower sleeve of the jumper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umac Posted January 3, 2015 Share #47 Posted January 3, 2015 I bought into the first 1000 for years. You would think more would show up in photographs. I only have one soldier wearing the enlistment star in my collection of WWI soldiers - I would think there would be more. Rusty Canteen, congratulations on identifying the star for what it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted January 3, 2015 Share #48 Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks Erick, for identifying the purpose of the Navy star. Do you know if enlisted men of the Navy ever wore a similar star on the lower sleeve of the jumper? I don't know of the enlisted wearing a star on the cuff, however they would wear the star above the Gun Pointer distinguishing mark, indicating that they were a Gun Pointer First Class. Here is a plate form the 1917 USN uniform regs showing the Gun Pointer distinguishing mark (21) and the star used to show first class. This mark was worn higher on the jumper midway between the elbow and shoulder. THis is an example posted by KAStauffer at this thread: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/56549-interesting-wwi-or-earlier-us-navy-uniform-uss-pensacola/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOKIEMAN Posted January 5, 2015 Share #49 Posted January 5, 2015 Just came across this thread while looking for another subject on the forum. Attached is a PPC I purchased at the Annual Post Card Show in Wichita last Fall. It is a formal studio style photo of a standing WW1 soldier. What caught my attention was the star above the three overseas chevrons. Upon closer examination there is also a straight bar and a discharge chevron above the star. He is also wearing the Quartermaster "Private" insignia on the upper middle left sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share #50 Posted January 6, 2015 Cookieman, that'a a very interesting photo. I've never seen a set up quite like that before. The guy appears the have three silver service chevrons showing between 18 and 23 months of stateside service during the war. Presumably, the star is an enlistment star indicating that he volunteered, but what could the bar/stripe over the star represent? I can't quite make out your close up ... is the bar/stripe part of the enlistment star insignia or is it separate from it? Thanks for adding it to the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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