38Driver Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share #26 Posted December 15, 2014 Here's a few pics of the helmet in question: Just about bet the house that the Fixed Loops were replaced at some point with Swivel Loops. I have a couple of early McCords where that was clearly done when the helmet was refurbished. Sure looks like 38A Edited to add this image of the Swivel Loops on my rear seam Schlueter. No doubt with the helmet from production. Not sure if it tells us anything or not, but the visible dimples from the spot welding sure stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted December 15, 2014 Share #27 Posted December 15, 2014 plus schlueters generally have bails closer to the rim than that, and it still looks too wide to be a schlueter bail (schlueters are longer and skinnier for those who dont know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant G. Posted December 15, 2014 Share #28 Posted December 15, 2014 Ok, I spent a little while looking through the forum's Schlueter manufactured helmets and I have compiled a revised chart. I became a little more exclusive with what gets put on the chart, so if any one would like me to add their helmets to the chart please make sure it meets the criteria (IE has original factory straps, clearly visible stamp, etc.) Notice the transition around the 340-350 range this is when manganese started replacing the stainless rim, but apparently it was not a perfect transition, in which some later helmets still have stainless rims. Then at the early 400 range is when the rim switched to the back. If anyone has fixed loops that meet the criteria please post the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant G. Posted December 15, 2014 Share #29 Posted December 15, 2014 Sorry, disregard the two previous charts. I really wish the forum would return to their earlier picture posting methods. This is the accurate chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted December 15, 2014 Share #30 Posted December 15, 2014 i have 41 helmets in my list including strapless helmets... (sorry only way i could get a copy of it all on my tablet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B24AT6 Posted December 15, 2014 Share #31 Posted December 15, 2014 My ID'd 2nd ID helmet is a Front Seam Manganese rim with OD7 straps with the flat steel buckle, and #326A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted December 15, 2014 Share #32 Posted December 15, 2014 I have 3 schlueters. One of them is a fixed bail. I will check there heat stamps and other characteristics tomorrow. This is a great idea ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Driver Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share #33 Posted December 15, 2014 Should be interesting to see if anyone has helmets that fall between the last fixed loop at 151A and the first swivel loop at 246A. That's a bit of a gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant G. Posted December 15, 2014 Share #34 Posted December 15, 2014 Should be interesting to see if anyone has helmets that fall between the last fixed loop at 151A and the first swivel loop at 246A. That's a bit of a gap. I came across a few that fit into the gap, however they were lacking their chinstraps and I didn't want to add helmets that didn't fill in all the cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aef1917 Posted December 15, 2014 Share #35 Posted December 15, 2014 Here are Schlueter's month-by-month production figures for 1944. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted December 15, 2014 Share #36 Posted December 15, 2014 I came across a few that fit into the gap, however they were lacking their chinstraps and I didn't want to add helmets that didn't fill in all the cells. im making a chart with ones missing straps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aef1917 Posted December 15, 2014 Share #37 Posted December 15, 2014 I have another document that Mike (sgtdorango) and I found independent of one another that indicate that Schlueter lot numbers up to S-199A pre-date December, 1943. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Driver Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share #38 Posted December 15, 2014 I came across a few that fit into the gap, however they were lacking their chinstraps and I didn't want to add helmets that didn't fill in all the cells. There is enough other info we can get fron the strapless helmets that mak them worth including I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted December 15, 2014 Share #39 Posted December 15, 2014 There is enough other info we can get fron the strapless helmets that mak them worth including I think. im at 49, went through WRF as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant G. Posted December 15, 2014 Share #40 Posted December 15, 2014 There is enough other info we can get fron the strapless helmets that mak them worth including I think. You guys can, I just didn't see the importance to include ones that are incomplete when there are so many others to choose from. So far my chart is up to 66 helmets. I'm noticing some crazy irregularities around the "transition stage", which may be the reason an author hasn't been successful at tackling a "Schlueter Chart" yet. Current Findings: Lowest lot number: 28A Highest lot number: 558A Earliest Swivel Loop: 170A Latest Fixed Loop: 211A5 (I know it sounds odd, but I saw it with my own eyes) Earliest Rear Seam: 436A Latest Front Seam: 437A (you would think those two would be flipped, but they're not) If the straps are OD#7 a huge majority of the buckles are flat steel OD#3 straps with flat brass buckle were on a very late 450A, closest other with that configuration was back at 270A So far all suffixes are either "A" or "B" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted December 15, 2014 Share #41 Posted December 15, 2014 You guys can, I just didn't see the importance to include ones that are incomplete when there are so many others to choose from. So far my chart is up to 66 helmets. I'm noticing some crazy irregularities around the "transition stage", which may be the reason an author hasn't been successful at tackling a "Schlueter Chart" yet. Current Findings: Lowest lot number: 28A Highest lot number: 558A Earliest Swivel Loop: 170A Latest Fixed Loop: 211A5 (I know it sounds odd, but I saw it with my own eyes) Earliest Rear Seam: 436A Latest Front Seam: 437A (you would think those two would be flipped, but they're not) If the straps are OD#7 a huge majority of the buckles are flat steel OD#3 straps with flat brass buckle were on a very late 450A, closest other with that configuration was back at 270A So far all suffixes are either "A" or "B" i have a 88D and a 88B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyJ Posted December 15, 2014 Share #42 Posted December 15, 2014 You guys can, I just didn't see the importance to include ones that are incomplete when there are so many others to choose from. So far my chart is up to 66 helmets. I'm noticing some crazy irregularities around the "transition stage", which may be the reason an author hasn't been successful at tackling a "Schlueter Chart" yet. Current Findings: Lowest lot number: 28A Highest lot number: 558A Earliest Swivel Loop: 170A Latest Fixed Loop: 211A5 (I know it sounds odd, but I saw it with my own eyes) Earliest Rear Seam: 436A Latest Front Seam: 437A (you would think those two would be flipped, but they're not) If the straps are OD#7 a huge majority of the buckles are flat steel OD#3 straps with flat brass buckle were on a very late 450A, closest other with that configuration was back at 270A So far all suffixes are either "A" or "B" If the point is to develop some kind of timeline I think all helmets with legible heat stamps should be included. For instance you say that the latest front seam is 437A, although I have a front seam Schlueter with a clear visible heat stamp of 441A but not straps. I don't see why that kind of information should be excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyboots Posted December 15, 2014 Share #43 Posted December 15, 2014 I have a 437A rear seam manganese rim, swivel bail, OD7 sewn on chinstraps and I think a T-1 buckle without the ball hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted December 15, 2014 Share #44 Posted December 15, 2014 Here's a few I have, some of which are not listed so far, hope these can be of use to you guys - Fixed Loop, stainless steel front seam rim, stamped brass chinstrap buckle, O.D.#3 chinstrap webbing - 116B Fixed Loop, stainless steel front seam rim, stamped brass chinstrap buckle, O.D.#7 chinstrap webbing - 149A Swivel Loop, stainless steel front seam rim, stamped steel chinstrap buckle, O.D.#7 chinstrap webbing - 48A Swivel Loop, stainless steel front seam rim, stamped steel chinstrap buckle, O.D.#3 chinstrap webbing - 258A Swivel Loop, stainless steel front seam rim, stamped steel chinstrap buckle, O.D.#3 chinstrap webbing - 278A Swivel Loop, stainless steel front seam rim, stamped steel chinstrap buckle, O.D.#7 chinstrap webbing - 327A Swivel Loop, stainless steel front seam rim, stamped steel chinstrap buckle, O.D.#7 chinstrap webbing - 371A Swivel Loop, manganese rear seam rim, stamped steel chinstrap buckle, O.D.#7 chinstrap webbing - 507A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant G. Posted December 15, 2014 Share #45 Posted December 15, 2014 i have a 88D and a 88B Jake, could you post photos of that 88D? I have yet to see one without an A or B ending. Muddyboots, is the buckle factory attached flat steel, or was it later replaced with a T-1 buckle and hook? Pump, are you sure that 48A is a factory original swivel loop? I'm asking because the earliest one I have come across is way out at 170A and yours is 48A. It might be refurbished with new loops or possibly a partially concealed lot number. Thank you everyone for double checking and contributing to the chart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyboots Posted December 15, 2014 Share #46 Posted December 15, 2014 The hook looks factory done with a bar tack stitch. Not quite sure what a field repair would look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant G. Posted December 15, 2014 Share #47 Posted December 15, 2014 The hook looks factory done with a bar tack stitch. Not quite sure what a field repair would look like. Could you post photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyboots Posted December 15, 2014 Share #48 Posted December 15, 2014 My phone is not allowing me to attach pictures for some reason and I don't have a camera with me right now. But the hook is a heavier construction than the later Vietnam era helmets that I have. I should have my camera back this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted December 15, 2014 Share #49 Posted December 15, 2014 Here is the 48A. It does have a field exterior repaint, however there is still a light amount of original corking underneath. Interior looks factory O.D., but there may be an area next to one of the loops that looks like maybe where the fixed loop foot was in the past? See what you think here, I'm leaning towards added swivels - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted December 15, 2014 Share #50 Posted December 15, 2014 1) Schlueter fixed bail: 58C 2) schlueter swivel bail: 800C 3) Schlueter Swivel bail: 479A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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