Japanese flag - a little different from most?

[jasonc]

I picked up this flag recently at the Raleigh gun show, and I thought I would share it here. I don't speak Japanese, but I don't see the "good luck" phrase that seems to appear on a lot of bringback flags. Any ideas as to what I have here? The overall size is about 13" x 19".

 

Also, this one has a US tag attached with a stamp that reads "Examined in the field by Joint Intelligence." I didn't have a magnifying glass with me when I bought it, so I thought the handwritten part read "Lieut USMC," but on blowing it up like this, I think it might be "Lieut USNR." What would the handwritten "n.f." stand for?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Rakkasan187]

I think the N.F. is the person's initials..

 

I think the last name is Suseen??? So N.F. Suseen possibly..

 

It looks like USNR (US Navy Reserves)

 

Leigh

[siege1863]

I think it is N.F. Jensen.

[jasonc]

Your guess is as good as mine. I've been looking at it for a while and haven't been able to puzzle anything out. I do think that the first letter of the last name is probably a "J"--it kind of looks like the J in "Japanese."

[siege1863]

I also think it could read USNR.

[jasonc]

I think you are right. I think that the last letter is an "R," so it's probably USNR.

[DoubleEnvelopment]

I hate to post such a negative comment but this flag was determined to be a modern day fake, a long discussion was held about it on the WW2 Japanese Help Hotline Group on Facebook. I just want possible collector's to know. Here is a link.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205366607670495&set=gm.884019408308811&type=1&theater

[gwb123]

I don't think the link is working. You may want to copy and paste key segments of the discussion.

[jasonc]

Right, I started that discussion on Facebook on advice in a pm from a user here.

 

For the link to work, you have to be logged in to Facebook.

 

The discussion went back and forth, with some thinking that it was a period souvenir sold to occupation troops not long after the war, while others called it a modern copy. In the end, one expert said that the kanji handwriting was more indicative of a native Chinese speaker rather than Japanese. Based off of that, he decided that it is more likely a modern copy than a period item.

[Fixbayonets!]

Sorry I can't comment on the flag but I think it stands a chance of being original based on the tag. I believe these tags were used by the U.S. Navy to document war souvenirs that were being brought home. I have one such tag attached to a Japanese nambu holster brought home by a LTJG. There is a youtube video that shows original footage of these tags being used, it shows Officers attaching these tags to various souvenirs (I tried to copy and paste the link but it would not work here, search youtube for "Navy submarine souvenirs'). If the tag is original to the flag I bet the flag is original. Here is a photo of the tag I have for comparison.

 

Rob

[Fixbayonets!]

A few photos I took off my monitor from the footage showing the tags in use.

[Fixbayonets!]

..

[jasonc]

I like the tag, too, but it isn't permanently attached to the flag. I think there's no way to tell if it is original or added later:

[Fixbayonets!]

yeah, the tags were just tied on to the souvenir. I like the fact that the tag is tied to the flag & the tag looks original to me. I am not sure if someone faking the flag would go so far but I guess you never know.

 

Rob

[jasonc]

Thanks for your insight on the tag. Seems like this flag has "black eyes" and "feathers in its cap."

 

Real or not, it'll look nice as a display flag.

[gwb123]

Not to beat this to death, but I just noticed that those three stamps look identical. Unless they say something generic, like "Good Luck", it makes me wonder why the same thing would be repeated.

 

They might be duplicating a "chop" or a formal signature block that was often used in Asia instead of writing. But if that is the case they should be different.

 

As far as when it was made... keep in mind both in Europe and Asia war "souvenirs" were a hot market just as soon as the shooting stopped. Many soldiers and sailors, especially the late comers, wanted to take home something that said "I've been there". This might explain how you have a genuine tag on a questionable item... the owner may have bought it on the town but still had to get it cleared to bring it home.

 

Put it up on the wall and it is what it is. Put a really great display in front of it and nobody will even notice.

[DoubleEnvelopment]

1)The handwriting is all the same, never a good sign because usually these were signed by multiple family members and/or co-workers as a type of going away memento good luck charm

2)Dan King said the handwriting isn't even native Japanese, he's a noted author on Japanese WWII history.

3) There are all of these near duplicates on ebay, all have the same bad writing, and the same identical stamp. Flags on stamps are called hanko stamps and they are stamped, blessed and signed by a priest at a Shinto Shrine. These similar flags all having the identical stamp in a similar fashion is just too mass produced to be true.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WWII-Japanese-Signed-Battle-Flag-Authentic-/121501453555?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4a0d0cf3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ww2-Japanese-signed-silk-Flag-/331400632468?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d29045894

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Japan-WWII-WW2-Flag-Banner-/161464857502?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25980e339e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WWII-Japanese-Signed-Battle-Flag-Authentic-/121501453555?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4a0d0cf3

 

 

I can't explain the tag but it doesn't do anything towards proving this isn't a illegitimate flag.