23rd Regiment Epaulettes Real?

[minesweeper]

Picked these up yesterday, I believe they date to Indian Wars era...if they're real. Pluses: the brass numbers look very well done and the patent stamp looks good to me (there is a maker or name, but very faint above one of the patent stamps) and they do have some age for sure. Minuses: I've never seen this type of plating underneath and they're very clean. I paid repro prices. Any opinions appreciated.

[minesweeper]

One more..

[Redlegwolf]

Well, they're interesting, but not of a model I am familiar with personally. I am only used to the bullion and sewn knots which would include rank and regiment, the color denoting branch. I wonder if these belong with those odd metal helmets that bear similarity to the M1881, but which are not military in nature.

[KurtA]

I don't think there's any question as to being original late 1800's. Shoulder straps of this era can be found with metal in place of the bullion, so it looks like the same thing was done with 1880 shoulder paddles. However, I would think they are for a state or militia unit, not Federal. Too bad the buttons are missing. They would have told the story.

[Redlegwolf]

Thanks for that note, Kurt--these really through me for a loop.

[Steve Rogers]

Most likely these are 23rd NGSNY. The regiment was from Brooklyn and being a city regiment was strong enough to keep its regimental identity after the Civil War when various NY National Guard regiments vanished and small town companies became simply numbered "Separate Companies."