Civil War and GAR items needing opinions on

[4th Miss Cav]

Plate is a model 1851 sword belt plate with an applied wreath. I think it might be Indian War era, nice either way.

[Steve Rogers]

One thing that bothers me about the cavalry insignia is that it seems to be the 1858 sized crossed sabers rather than the 1872. Can you lay a ruler next to it?

[rhill13]

Hopefully this pic will help

[Steve Rogers]

As other posts have indicated, the use of the company letter alone with the crossed sabers was regulation from 1873 until 1877 when the use of a regimental numeral was specified. At that time the number was to be above and the company letter below. From 1873 to 1877 the position of the company letter seems to have varied, at least I have seen them in both positions in photos.

The use of the pin and the solder fill on the reverse is a custom element, as is the use of a conjoined letter and branch insignia. It does not seem uncommon in the period, however. A number of examples are shown in Langellier, Army Blue, etc. I also attach a jpeg of an 1872 campaign hat with original insignia on the upturned brim that I pulled from a NJ estate years ago (though whether it was a federal or state piece is another question.) It had the same elements: conjoined letter above, pin back, solder (or partial solder, I can't remember) fill.

I asked about the dimensions, which indicate 1872 style of insignia, because fakers have produced a lot of CW style insignia with conjoined letters and numerals. I expect the letter on yours is 5/8 inch tall.

As a side note, I think the belt plate is a good wartime officer's plate with silver washed wreath rather than a separately applied German silver wreath as is correct for an enlisted man's plate. The die work on the officer's plates is usually finer than the enlisted varieties and the wreaths were silvered, as were sometimes the stars, but silver would usually be a thin wash that has worn off, so not many are as well preserved.

[RelicHunter99]

The 1858 and 1872 model cavalry insignia are very different in appearance. The curvature of the blades, the handles, and the scabbard pieces are all different.

[Steve Rogers]

I take your point on the curvature of the blades- the 1872 tend to be more curved, but with a half-dozen or so different die strikes of CW cav insignia and the vagaries of photography, I think the size is the quickest determining factor for dating the government issue pieces. I don't see that much difference in scabbards or guards, but I don't have all the CW variants in front of me, and of course my eyes aint what they used to be. In any case, being the 1872 style insignia showing a known variation, this one stands a much better chance of being real than if it were one of the CW style flooding online auctions.