Research Request... 3rd AD: Need help for a model project

[Garandomatic]

I'm looking to build an M5 Stuart to go with my one and only tanker uniform. Man was a Lt. in Co. B, 33rd Armored Regiment. pretty sure he was platoon commander. He was wounded pretty badly in the late Summer of 1944. I'd like to recreate his vehicle as best I can. Didn't know if anybody had any information that might indicate markings, and what the paint scheme would be like in terms of bold white stars, command bars or other insignia, or whether it would have been misted over or even gray. Not even sure where to start looking. I doubt the vehicle number would be researchable, but any help or advice would be great!

[outlook6]

I have a copy of the 1942 Camp Polk "yearbook" for the 33rd AR that has a couple of images of Stuarts on maneuvers in Louisiana that I could scan if it would be of any benefit. It also has photos of the officers and men in B company at that time.

Regards,

Jim

[Jeeper704]

M5A1 Stuart Light Tanks from Co. B, 33rd Armored Regiment, 3rd Armored Division, near Marigny, France, 26 July 1944.

 

B Company had big yellow letters on the side; for example "B-21".

Most Stuarts seem to have a white star with circle on top of the turrets.

Some Stuarts had the bridge clacification painted on their fronts (black number in yellow/orange circle).

A lot of Stuarts had nicknames that started with the letter from their company ("Carol" for a Stuart in C Company, etc).

Designations: 3 'triangle' - 33 'triangle' and on the other side B-'vehicle number in that company'(like B-15).

 

I hope this helps.

 

Erwin

[Garandomatic]

Jim (Outlook6), yes, definitely. I'd love to see that. My guy was Kenneth Malick.

 

Jeeper704, Holy smokes! yeah, that helps a lot! I think I've got it nailed down for everything except the actual vehicle number, and that might be impossible to come up with. I really appreciate the expertise.

 

I see the first one lacks the skirts around the tracks, do you have any opinion as to which was more common, or more preferred among the tankers themselves?

[Joe55]

If the numbering was identical to what it is now, or at least when I was at it, it would go like this:

 

B Co., 1st Platoon

B-11

B-12

B-13

B-14 (PSG)

B-16 (PL)

 

B Co., 2d Platoon

B-21

B-22

B-23

B-24 (PSG)

B-26 (PL)

 

B Co., 3d Platoon

B-31

B-32

B-33

B-34 (PSG)

B-36 (PL)

 

As you can see above, the Platoon leader depending on which platoon he had would either be 16, 26, or 36

 

What we call 'bumper markings' would then look like this:

 

3/_\33/_\ B-16

3/_\33/_\ B-26

3/_\33/_\ B-36

(I tried to mimick the armor triangles above)

 

Kinda curious that I was on B-36 in the 70s for this same unit. I was the Platoon Leaders gunner.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Joe

[Garandomatic]

YES! That's it, my guy was a platoon leader! Thank you so much! I might have the information as to what platoon he was in, too!

[Garandomatic]

I looked at another post where a man supplied a bit of info for me, and it listed the Company CO and his four platoon leaders. My guy was listed fourth, not in alphabetical order, so I'm hazarding a guess that he was 4th platoon. If your numbering structure was the same as WWII, but there were four platoons (not sure if that's right), would that mean his number could be B-46?

 

Anybody know if a light tank company had four platoons per company in WWII?

[Joe55]

They had 3 tank platoons and a HQ platoon.

 

The HQ platoon was headed by the company executive officer (XO). The XO was also the company maintenance officer. This platoon had several different types of vehicles that the mechanics, recovery, supply, 1SG, XO, and Co utilized. Here you would find also the Co's and XO's tanks

(example: B-66 for the CO and B-65 for the XO).

 

Platoons:

HQ

1st

2nd

3d

 

If your guy was listed forth, I would then presume he was the 3d Platoon Leader.

 

 

 

Joe

[Garandomatic]

THanks man! That's good enough intel for me! I'll fudge the vehivle number and see if I can round up the rest here and there. I sure appreciate it!

[Joe55]

You are most welcome, glad to of been of some help !

 

Do you have any info as to when he was wounded? We might be able to narrow down what operation/battle he was involved in at the time.

 

Joe

[Garandomatic]

Of the top of my head, august 28, 1944. That's St. Lo, isn't it? Shell fragments to his head. He was in rough shape for a while after, had done dizziness and nausea from it, but came out of it. Think I ought to remove the armor from in front of the machine gun as pictured above?

[Steve B.]

Go to my website at: http://36thair3ad.homestead.com/36AIR_MainPage.html

 

Enter the site by clicking on the black Enter button. That should take you to the table of contents. Look for item 8. Original 3AD Photos, and click on the crest next to that for the link to the original photos table of contents. There are several links you will want to look at: Photos taken by Captain John Metcalfe will have the best, sharpest photos, Photos Taken by Belgian Citizens will probably be of interest, and original Signal Corps photos might be of interest, too. It wouldn't hurt to look at the rest of the photos to get some ideas, even though they are infantry heavy.

 

The tactical numbers on 3AD vehicles were based on the company, platoon, and squad/section/tank in that platoon. For instance, halftrack E-12 belonged to E Company, 1st Platoon, 2nd Squad. The bumper numbers did not necessarily match the tactical number. I know the infantry named their vehicles with names that started with the same letter as the company they were assigned to. Again, E Company vehicles were named Eleanor, Evelyn, Eightball, etc. I believe all the units, including the 33rd followed that convention. You may be able to find some nicknames in the photo pages.

 

I have some 3AD references here at home, and would be happy to try to help you with your research. There are at least a couple of 3AD websites that might be helpful: www.3ad.com & www.3ad.org. the .org site is a veteran's site that is mainly concerned with Cold War era 3AD, but has a little WWII info. The 3AD History site is also Cold War heavy, but has good WWII info. Check YouTube, or google 3rd Armored Division for some interesting videos, particularly the ones about the battle for Cologne.

 

Anyway PM me or e-mail me at [email protected] and I will do what I can to help.

[Joe55]

All I can find at this moment is that his unit, which was part of Combat Command B (CCB), on that day was moving northeast toward Soissons.

 

Joe

[Garandomatic]

Thanks again for the help, fellas! I'll dig into it tomorrow after work. I've got to throw something together for a class, get the kids to bed, etc.

[Joe55]

Just learned that the maintenance officer was a Lt. Carter. Known to his lieutenant buddies as 'Rusty'.

 

I realize that this has no bearing on what you are after, but found it interesting, and wondered if you could confirm it via the info that you have.

 

Joe

[Garandomatic]

I can't but another fella that has some documents might be able to do so. I believe his handle on here is "I Hate Moths."