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A Question of Respect: The Wear of Overseas Bars on Field Uniforms in WWII


michi4773
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post-34986-0-46545300-1434204730.jpg

 

Now here's a photo of OS Bars being worn, and in a Forward area I would think, on a tanker jacket. These two are from one of the units of the 113th Cavalry Group, either the 113th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron, the 125th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron or the HHC of the 13th Cavalry Group itself. The parent unit, the 113th Cavalry Regiment arrived in England in late January 1944, after which in a few hours it would seem, the Regiment was broken up in to all these above mentioned units so given the two OS bars for one year's service would date this photo to February-April 1945. The 113th Cav Rcn Gp arrived on the continent 1 July, but it's arrival in England starts it's overseas service.

 

The OS bars by the way definitely are those printed types one might see, English made (click on image for a larger view)

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blitzkrieg gsd

I think you should get some repo patches to put on it instead of his originals. That way you can keep his protected somewhere and not worry about something bad happening to them.

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Regarding the jacket, keep it simple. If you were doing it for your Dad and he was wearing it, that's one thing. He earned the right to wear it.

 

However, if you're wearing it, it would be inappropriate to dress out the jacket with all the stripes, patches and overseas bars.

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  • 10 months later...

Hi all! I'm another massive World War II enthusiast, and I am a young uniform collector in college. As it happens, I also like to wear World War II uniforms from all branches, not every day though, just on anniversaries (June 6th, April 18th). It's more meaningful that way. I wear them in tribute, not just because it looks cool. Also, my grandfather was a Navy intelligence officer stationed on Tinian during the war, so I like to wear his dress whites here and there. I've never met a vet that had a problem with it, my next door neighbor was on an LST and missed the war by a bit (had Operation Downfall happened, he would have seen action), and he gets a kick out of it, and the general reaction is "It's great seeing kids your age take such an interest in that part of history". Also, I have several friends from full military families, including my roommate, that are completely fine with it and actually quite like it

 

Mind you, I always wear the uniforms plain, stripped of all medals and ribbons. I haven't been accused of Stolen Valor yet, but if someone accused me of it, what would be an appropriate response? I'm certainly not trying to pass myself off as a WWII vet. What could I respond if I was accused of that?

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Hi all! I'm another massive World War II enthusiast, and I am a young uniform collector in college. As it happens, I also like to wear World War II uniforms from all branches, not every day though, just on anniversaries (June 6th, April 18th). It's more meaningful that way. I wear them in tribute, not just because it looks cool. Also, my grandfather was a Navy intelligence officer stationed on Tinian during the war, so I like to wear his dress whites here and there. I've never met a vet that had a problem with it, my next door neighbor was on an LST and missed the war by a bit (had Operation Downfall happened, he would have seen action), and he gets a kick out of it, and the general reaction is "It's great seeing kids your age take such an interest in that part of history". Also, I have several friends from full military families, including my roommate, that are completely fine with it and actually quite like it

 

Mind you, I always wear the uniforms plain, stripped of all medals and ribbons. I haven't been accused of Stolen Valor yet, but if someone accused me of it, what would be an appropriate response? I'm certainly not trying to pass myself off as a WWII vet. What could I respond if I was accused of that?

You could respond with everything you just said. It is completely justified by what you stated
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Would it be okay for me to wear stuff even if it wasn't my grandfather's (like I said, I collect uniforms from all branches). I forgot to ask that specifically, and thanks for such a quick reply

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In my opinion, it's absolutely fine. It's all about the intent, and you aren't trying to deceive anyone into believing you're a vet (much less a WWII vet). You're simply doing it to honor service members.

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Sgt. BARney

Michi - great question, great topic and some great conversation. I have a somewhat similar situation. I was in the US Marines 1979-83, and am also very into USMC WW2 history and the 1940's generally. I have assembled a WW2 USMC dress greens uniform that I wear at events such as big band/swing dances and concerts. According to USMC regulations, a civilian (even former Marine) is not allowed to wear a USMC uniform of any kind unless that person was a Marine serving during time of war and the uniform is the type in use during their time in. Pretty restrictive and very specific. My father wasn't even in WW2, let alone me! But personally, I've decided not to get hung up on that. I only put insignia on the uniform that I rate from when I was in the service, such as rank, ribbons, etc. With the exception of Good Conduct, none of the ribbons I rate were even in use during WW2, so I use modern ribbons on the old uniform. I don't want to be accused of stolen valor. I also always make sure the uniform and myself are squared away - uniform pressed and cleaned, fresh haircut and shave for me, shined shoes, etc. No one has ever challenged me on wearing it. In fact, most former Marines come up and we have quite a conversation on the uniform. However, I know that somewhere out there is a former Marine that will take me to task on it with regard to the USMC regulation forbidding it. I'll deal with that when it happens. I have a hard time believing any law enforcement agency would consider what I do and what you are proposing to be a priority crime. In the meantime, the wife and I have a lot of fun at 40's events dressed in period.

 

To your question, I'd put your father's awards on the jacket and wear it with pride, and be cognizant of not doing anything to discredit him or what it represents when you have it on.

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  • 6 years later...
patches

One more Overseas Bars in the field sighting, this like in the early fall of 44, unit unknown, but at the German frontier regions, Lorraine, Luxemburg  Roer etc,.

OS Bar.PNG

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Vanderbilt
On 10/22/2014 at 9:48 PM, unclegrumpy said:

He would not have worn overseas stripes or service bars on his field jacket.

 

Other than that, I agree, do what you feel most comfortable with. One thing that is an advantage for you, is nobody is likely to bother you about wearing PFC stripes, if it were a Master Sargent's stripes or Colonel's eagles, that might be a different story.

.....having dealt with reenactors. I wouldn't concern oneself with any rank. I've seen my share of 300lb paratroopers and Special Forces, as well as 70 year old privates and officers, lol......no shortage of 18th and 19th century reenactors dressed up as Cols, Genls, Admls.....not to to mention those of us in our 50s-60s-70's that wear old uniforms or bits and pieces of uniforms to shooting matches.....if you're doing it to honor a family member and if they held that rank, why would anyone have an issue with that? Now as others say, wearing modern day current uniforms with patches or insignia if you have never served or wearing modern awards you never earned, that's a whole different issue.

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  • 2 weeks later...
patches

OS Bars on Lt Col Charles T. Horner Jr. C.O. of the 5rd Battalion 16th Infantry 1st Infantry Division sometime in late 1944 into 1945 we should think.

kiooii.jpg

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manayunkman
5 hours ago, patches said:

OS Bars on Lt Col Charles T. Horner Jr. C.O. of the 5rd Battalion 16th Infantry 1st Infantry Division sometime in late 1944 into 1945 we should think.

kiooii.jpg

What patch is he wearing?

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postmanusnac

Here is a great picture of a 2nd Div guy with o/s bars on his field jacket in Dec 44.

 

image.png.381ae9d7e0a8e80950f3693e5ae116f7.png

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Tonomachi
4 hours ago, postmanusnac said:

Here is a great picture of a 2nd Div guy with o/s bars on his field jacket in Dec 44.

 

image.png.381ae9d7e0a8e80950f3693e5ae116f7.png

That is also a great picture of a 2nd Infantry Ranger as you can clearly see the white skull on a black circular cuff patch above the overseas bars.  

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postmanusnac
14 minutes ago, Tonomachi said:

That is also a great picture of a 2nd Infantry Ranger as you can clearly see the white skull on a black circular cuff patch above the overseas bars.  

Yes, it is.  I had posted it to the FB group when I stumbled upon it looking through Life photos.

 

I wish he could be ID.

 

This is the full photo.  image.png.f4ec7c69b02253f031c4bfa64d1006db.png

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postmanusnac

George Silk was the photographer.  Here is another one he took.

 

image.png.77754029a4544e7dd5178cfb311198cd.png

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patches
15 hours ago, manayunkman said:

What patch is he wearing?

The Big Red One. It's sewn on on a off center way.

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