mghcal Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share #26 Posted October 13, 2014 Mike, here's the back of the Stark wing. It's clutchback but looks like it was converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROBS Posted October 13, 2014 Share #27 Posted October 13, 2014 Traced I think the shadow of the epaulet is giving you the optical illusion that they are not circular. I can see the details of the TC DI on them. Also Patrick has the original photo.. I'm sure he can see them. -Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
501stGeronimo Posted October 13, 2014 Share #28 Posted October 13, 2014 I think the shadow of the epaulet is giving you the optical illusion that they are not circular. I can see the details of the TC DI on them. Also Patrick has the original photo.. I'm sure he can see them. -Brian Before I will be convinced otherwise, I would need a better scan. That isn't the shadow of the epaulette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
501stGeronimo Posted October 13, 2014 Share #29 Posted October 13, 2014 And Brian, the scroll at the bottom doesn't even come out like the TC duis. Sorry, I still say it isn't a TC dui. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share #30 Posted October 13, 2014 John, on your clutchbacks when do you think those would've been issued? I always was under the impression the clutches were late war? Yours in post 22 looks like long posts what was the time period for those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-17Guy Posted October 13, 2014 Share #31 Posted October 13, 2014 Clutch type fasteners first came into use in 1923 (pull back). I have one with a 1923 date on it. The clutch fasteners that everyone thinks of came into use in 1943 (squeeze type). The reason that dating a wing by the length of the posts does not work, is that some officers had padded uniforms in the 1930's and those wings had long posts, most likely either ordered special from the company or modified by a jeweler. The trick is distinguishing a post war wing with long posts from an earlier one, and that just takes time and experience. This might be of help- http://hglanham.tripod.com/metalinsignia2/datingclutches.html John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted October 13, 2014 Share #32 Posted October 13, 2014 You 'al are posting some very nice Pilot badges and solid information. Here's a 1940 image of Major Arthur Blum from the West Coast Training Command wearing the same style wing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted October 13, 2014 Share #33 Posted October 13, 2014 Closer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted October 13, 2014 Share #34 Posted October 13, 2014 Very similar to Mike's Command Pilot wing posted above, here's a Senior Pilot variation using the same style star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted October 13, 2014 Share #35 Posted October 13, 2014 A uniquely detailed star was used which I've not seen used on any other patterns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted October 13, 2014 Share #36 Posted October 13, 2014 Back of the Senior Pilot badge with starburst pattern and incised sterling mark: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypilot6670 Posted October 13, 2014 Share #37 Posted October 13, 2014 Do any smooth back exist ? The one on EBay now is a smooth back with clutches. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted October 13, 2014 Share #38 Posted October 13, 2014 Great looking Wings guys.Love this pattern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share #39 Posted October 13, 2014 Mike, I think the eBay wing is good as I've had several people with a lot more knowledge than me say that the one I just bought in my first post is good and it's the same as the eBay wing. The pattern is different than all those posted so far in this thread and if you compare you'll see the shield is narrower and taller you'll especially notice the area with the horizontals being taller, the top feather on both the outer and mid wings is longer than the second feather, the shield is flat on the bottom, and there are no snowflakes. These differences are the original reason I started the thread since I was a bit concerned with my new wing. It's been great to see everything from original dies, uniforms, and all the different fastenings and versions that John contributed, dated photos of the airmen wearing these wings that Patrick and Russ contributed, and the senior pilot Russ posted. Russ can i ask what is engraved on the back of the senior pilot do you know which airman owned it? Thanks everyone else for your comments as well this has been a great thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share #40 Posted October 14, 2014 Thanks to Patrick for resizing my horrible photo I can now post a comparison. See the pretty significant differences between the two patterns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted October 14, 2014 Share #41 Posted October 14, 2014 One more try: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted October 14, 2014 Share #42 Posted October 14, 2014 Mike, I think the eBay wing is good as I've had several people with a lot more knowledge than me say that the one I just bought in my first post is good and it's the same as the eBay wing. The pattern is different than all those posted so far in this thread and if you compare you'll see the shield is narrower and taller you'll especially notice the area with the horizontals being taller, the top feather on both the outer and mid wings is longer than the second feather, the shield is flat on the bottom, and there are no snowflakes. These differences are the original reason I started the thread since I was a bit concerned with my new wing. It's been great to see everything from original dies, uniforms, and all the different fastenings and versions that John contributed, dated photos of the airmen wearing these wings that Patrick and Russ contributed, and the senior pilot Russ posted. Russ can i ask what is engraved on the back of the senior pilot do you know which airman owned it? Thanks everyone else for your comments as well this has been a great thread! Mike, even with a loop I'm having trouble making out the name with certainty inscribed on the back. I believe it says "KOCH-" or "KOEH-"... This was an auction purchase with no information about the Pilot provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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