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ViewfinderGyrene

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. We've not been asked to go on a wartime footing since then. You can't tell me for one second this country wouldn't have done that after 9/11 had we been asked. We weren't. The message was go about your lives.

 

What really made me think about this was my nephew. He was one of those teenagers you refer to. Lousy at school, a bit of a screw up who paid more attention to video games than the world around him. He ended up in the 101st and did a year in Afghanistan. He watched his best buddy get his legs blown off five feet away and saw a lot of combat up close and personal. He buried a lot of buddies but did his job.

 

We were at a gathering one time after he was home and someone started up on the greatest generation stuff. Now keep in mind I've idolized the WW2 vets for most of my 54 years. They have always been my heroes. Despite that I had to say something, pointing out that lots of folks, like my nephew the teenage screw up stepped up and did thier part and endured the savagery of war. How is his generation any different? How are the Korean or Vietnam war vets any different?

 

You sell us and the WW2 vets short by making them more than they were. They'll always be my heroes, but not because they were greater than any other generation, but because they were just like us.

 

Every generation produces exceptional people like Louis Zamperini, thankfully.

 

And I'd suggest a bit of research on the time before Pearl Harbor and how the country looked at national defense and going to war. compare budgets for military spending from then and now. No comparison as to spending on defense. Ask the soldiers who trained with wooden rifles and cardboard tanks. The unity you speak of was not there until the bombs dropped. Then it became personal. I don't believe for one second this country would not have done exactly the same after 9/11 if we'd been asked. The unity was there after the towers went down. The approach our leaders took was different.

I want to make sure you know sir I don't admire one era of vets more than another. Taking the step to join the military, much less a unit assured of seeing combat is brave no matter what year. I didn't seek to degrade. Bless and thank you to your nephew.

 

My uncle was at the Pentagon. I remember the unity after 9/11, but you don't see it lasting. If we had been asked, I'm sure it would have happened similar to after PH. But the same enemy hasn't left and only intensified, and I see ignorance. I speak not of all my generation, but most with whom I have asked about history and current events.

 

If unity had not existed since December 8th 1941, we wouldn't have won. Large number of active duty does not win a war alone...we had far fewer than Hitler and Japan, yet we won. We were backed by our loved ones rather than divided as we are now. Politics should be off the table when freedom is attacked in such horrific ways. A division which briefly vanished in the days following 9/11. Personal is the Imperial Japanese Navy struck us before declaring War, is being attacked using planes loaded with civilians as weapons. The difference between those attacks and 12/26/14 is a lack of understanding...how soon the average citizen forgets. I hope the movie contributes to understanding and transcends the many years since those events.

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gliderrider401

I thought it was a great movie - although the books outshines what was presented on the silver screen.

 

The opening combat scene is amazing. Wow. The lady next to elbowed me twice from being startled. LOL

 

Rich

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DoubleEnvelopment

I cannot wait to see this. Mr. Zamperini was gracious enough to sign an autograph for me by mail. He is a true inspiration and hero.

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I saw it and loved it (despite being distracted by some technical innacuracies). The special effects were breathtaking. Loved the story, even more so being a fellow Christian and son of immigrants. Zamperini's story of coming up from adversity is truly inspiring.

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I'm with you on that. One of the greatest disservices done to the WW2 generation was to call them the greatest generation. To me its both an insult to them and to any that came before or after. They were no different than any other generation.

 

I believe they are the greatest generation not because of just the war years but because of the years before and after WWII.

 

They grew up during the Depression which taught them how to work hard from a very young age. I have heard them talk about shining shoes or delivering milk at the age of 8. No generations since then have worked so hard helping their families at such a young age.

 

They came back from the war and did not ask the nation to give them anything. After the war, they went to school, work, etc and returned to living. Just as the line at the end of SPR stated, they “earned” the fact that they survived the war.

 

They have always given back to their communities in ways that future generations have never been able to match. They donated money to their churches, their communities, and their nation. The people today do not tithe or volunteer to nearly the extent of the Greatest Generation. Today, people are always “too busy” to volunteer or buying expensive items for themselves rather than giving to others.

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I saw the movie tonight and highly recommend the movie. It was very intense and very emotional but was a great testimony to the endurance and perseverance of the POWs in the Pacific Theatre.

 

...Kat

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I saw it today and liked it. The air battle scene was great. The thing I questioned was that it gave the impression that most prisoners could survive the prison camps. My understanding was that the death of prisoners was much more routine especially when compared to ETO prison camps.

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I believe they are the greatest generation not because of just the war years but because of the years before and after WWII.

 

They grew up during the Depression which taught them how to work hard from a very young age. I have heard them talk about shining shoes or delivering milk at the age of 8. No generations since then have worked so hard helping their families at such a young age.

 

They came back from the war and did not ask the nation to give them anything. After the war, they went to school, work, etc and returned to living. Just as the line at the end of SPR stated, they earned the fact that they survived the war.

 

They have always given back to their communities in ways that future generations have never been able to match. They donated money to their churches, their communities, and their nation. The people today do not tithe or volunteer to nearly the extent of the Greatest Generation. Today, people are always too busy to volunteer or buying expensive items for themselves rather than giving to others.

 

Understand as I've already said, they've been my heroes since I was a little boy. They were of thier time and went through the trials and tribulations of thier time. It's too easy this long after to put the rose colored glasses while blasting those in the present. If they are Greater than any other generation than how is it thier kids and grand kids havent followed up on it?

 

Cat I know you are well read. Look into the history before that generation and examine the lives they lived. Then go further back. You have to keep it in the context of thier time. There are good bad and indifferent in every generation. Also dig into thier experiences coming home and the things they did ask for. You'll find it sounding very similar to today. They weren't selfless, nor should they have been

 

I remember as a kid thinking that the pilots I read about must have been ten feet tall and strong as superman. Then I started to get to know them, and they'd become teachers, business men, salesmen, airline pilots and ministers among other things. I remember going to England to meet many of them in person at a reunion of thier squadron. I kept thinking I'd be looking up at them when I finally met them. Turned out that at 5'10" I was taller than all of them. What amazed me that my supermen all turned out to be Clark Kent. That made them bigger heroes to me. That they were human just like me changed my entire perspective.

 

Again the point is, by calling them the Greatest Generation it denies thier humanness. Every generation produces its own bigger than life people and every one has its deadbeats and failures. And in the end they are all human

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ViewfinderGyrene

I get his general point. Of course every generation has it's greats. But lets take some poetic license with one of Churchill's famous quotes: "Never was so much owed by so many to so MANY. " We don't make them out to be Gods by revering them. Growing up and learning that even though they DID do something extraordinary [saving the world on two fronts, no denying that], they were ordinary people, is just that: part of growing up and maturing in our knowledge. The term really only speaks in regards to the generations of the 20th Century, nobody would argue the point about the Founding Fathers etc.

 

I'd rather have my kid think they were Supermen when he's young/teenage than calling them old grouchy men who are annoying and don't matter.

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The thing I questioned was that it gave the impression that most prisoners could survive the prison camps. My understanding was that the death of prisoners was much more routine especially when compared to ETO prison camps.

 

Generally, the death rate on German POW camps among Western allied troops was somewhere around 1%. Of course, for Russian POWs it was much higher than that.

For Japanese POW camps, it could be about 40%

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Saw the movie on the 26th with my wife...

we both really enjoyed it.

 

Haven't read the book and I'm sure the movie leaves out some.. but it certainly did not feel incomplete.

 

It was easy to empathize with Louie throughout the movie, and really shows how bleek things can look in terrible situations.

 

I would recommend it not only as a WW2 movie, but as a humanistic tale of triumph and woe.

-Brian

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No meeting with Der Fuhrer in the movie? Wow, such a pivotal moment in his life totally ignored.

Maybe they didn't want the movie to be seen a a serious version of 'Forrest Gump,' or that audience wouldn't believe such an amazing and unlikely event in a already incredible life?

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I saw it today and liked it. The air battle scene was great. The thing I questioned was that it gave the impression that most prisoners could survive the prison camps. My understanding was that the death of prisoners was much more routine especially when compared to ETO prison camps.

I plan to see it tonight, but I wonder if they weren't trying to convey the idea that those that had the mentality that they COULD survive often did survive? I've read a few studies of the benefit that a positive mindset could produce when in Japanese custody.

 

I look forward to seeing it later.

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No meeting with Der Fuhrer in the movie? Wow, such a pivotal moment in his life totally ignored.

Maybe they didn't want the movie to be seen a a serious version of 'Forrest Gump,' or that audience wouldn't believe such an amazing and unlikely event in a already incredible life?

I think they didn't want it to take away from his first sight of 'the bird' at the Olympics. That was the main thing to take from his Olympic experience in this movie IMO. (Has more to do with overall plot development)

 

-Brian

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CNY Militaria

Was that "The Bird" at the Olympics? I can find no reference anywhere to that being him, but I thought it was the whole movie.

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Yes it's him but not sure if it's supposed to be a vision Louie imagines (foreshadowing) or real.

Because when he looks again, 'the bird' is gone.

 

So I think a 'vision'.

 

-Brian

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Yes it's him but not sure if it's supposed to be a vision Louie imagines (foreshadowing) or real. Because when he looks again, 'the bird' is gone. So I think a 'vision'. -Brian

 

I don't remember this in the movie. I will have to look closer next time I watch it.

 

...Kat

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It's in the flame lighting scene when they are all standing there with the vaudeville looking flat caps. He looks over at the Japanese athletes and the two catch eyes for a second. They show the spot where 'the bird' was again a few seconds later and he's gone.

 

-Brian

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It's in the flame lighting scene when they are all standing there with the vaudeville looking flat caps. He looks over at the Japanese athletes and the two catch eyes for a second. They show the spot where 'the bird' was again a few seconds later and he's gone.

 

-Brian

 

 

 

I havent read the whole book but maybe this is more Hollywood than fact?As we know things get added(as well as left out) at times to make it more of a dramatic scene.

 

Did they show the Duck scene in the movie?

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You mean the bird that they got while on the raft?? If so, yes. But it was some other type of bird.

 

And yes, I think he vision of 'the bird' at the Olympics was added to make the story that much more dramatic.

 

-Brian

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You mean the bird that they got while on the raft?? If so, yes. But it was some other type of bird.

 

And yes, I think he vision of 'the bird' at the Olympics was added to make the story that much more dramatic.

 

-Brian

 

No this was the pet duck at he camp..........

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I saw that exchange, but honestly, I don't think it was the bird. I think they had different complections, etc.

 

I was pretty impressed by it, overall. I have read a great deal of POW accounts, so I was prepared for what would happen. The combat scene and the crash troubled me more, as that is something that's hard to imagine, being raked over by Zeroes. That and the damn sharks.

 

The reviews have been 50/50, and I honestly don't know how it could have been done better. One gentleman went on about how it was so formulaic, and how it even had the sadistic camp commander, etc. If there is one thing formulaic about the PTO, it's the Japanese manner of treating POWs. I have come to the conclusion that I do not care for film critics.

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ViewfinderGyrene

I saw that exchange, but honestly, I don't think it was the bird. I think they had different complections, etc.

 

I was pretty impressed by it, overall. I have read a great deal of POW accounts, so I was prepared for what would happen. The combat scene and the crash troubled me more, as that is something that's hard to imagine, being raked over by Zeroes. That and the damn sharks.

 

The reviews have been 50/50, and I honestly don't know how it could have been done better. One gentleman went on about how it was so formulaic, and how it even had the sadistic camp commander, etc. If there is one thing formulaic about the PTO, it's the Japanese manner of treating POWs. I have come to the conclusion that I do not care for film critics.

 

I came to that conclusion a long time ago lol :P

 

Saw it last night and was not disappointed! I understand Jolie wanted a PG-13 rating, but compared to what I've read, it was too "clean" and to me not raw enough. I know it was a bio-pic and that aspect left me with my emotions cracking, but to present the shocking events of PTO camps, there could've been more when you think of how much they put into other genres of movies [i.e crime thrillers and horror]. Want horror, look no further than a Concentration Camp or a PTO POW Camp...

 

Other than that, fantastic and more people SHOULD have been on their feet at the end :dry:

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