Unbroken

[MAW]

Saw it last night....

 

...Overall....very well done.

 

Could have shown even more brutality from the Japs, but they got the point across for the average movie goer.

 

Good authenticity.....and nice tribute to the vet at the end.

[BROBS]

Saw it last night....

 

...Overall....very well done.

 

Could have shown even more brutality from the Japs, but they got the point across for the average movie goer.

 

Good authenticity.....and nice tribute to the vet at the end.

exactly..

I feel they showed well how frightened these POW's were of the unknown.

They never knew if they were going to be killed or tortured at any time.

 

-Brian

[Garandomatic]

exactly..

I feel they showed well how frightened these POW's were of the unknown.

They never knew if they were going to be killed or tortured at any time.

 

-Brian

 

 

I think you're right with that thought. I won't give away anything, but several times you really got that, right in your face. Fear of the unknown. If it wasn't a story about a man that obviously lived, and was more of a Band of Brothers type ensemble piece where you weren't sure who would or wouldn't die, man, it'd be terrifyingly effective.

[dustin]

Saw it this weekend and where I felt they fell short was soundly establishing why the "Bird" singled Louie out constantly. Its as if he was the only one in the camp receiving the excessive brutality side from a couple instances where one man was on the end of a beating and several implied scenes. So I would agree that they failed to give the feel of horror that what was a Japanese POW camp. Cleaning out the Honey Buckets wasn't enough.

[BROBS]

I can agree and see where you guys are coming from with that point.

However perhaps that type of brutality would up the rating to "R"??

Not sure what exactly determines the rating but it may be a factor. (graphic violence)

 

It did seem like it was mainly Louie singled out, but I think that's because it's his story.

You could hear and know brutality was going on to other people, they just didn't show it.

 

-Brian

[KASTAUFFER]

There is quite a bit about "the bird" whose real name was Mutsuhiro Watanabe on Wikipedia . He was a sadistic scumbag through and through, unrepentant til the day he died.

 

His family has a lot of money and he lived a privileged life before and after WWII. I hope he enjoys eternity in a "very warm hot place".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutsuhiro_Watanabe

[dustin]

In addition and what has not been mentioned yet is the ordeal surviving the 47 days at sea, this in itself is a constant 24-7 punishment of the body and mind, it Never stops. In some way the POW camp could be a reprieve to a point. You have dehydration, malnutrition, salt water sores, sun burn, constant submersion in salt water, dry mouth, blister, dry skin, zero protection from the elements and lost hope of rescue as one of their shipmates simply died of depression. Its all a mental game in the end we can all only hope to have that perseverance in times like those and in the case of Zambrini ..from the frying pan to the fire.

[willysmb44]

There is quite a bit about "the bird" whose real name was Mutsuhiro Watanabe on Wikipedia . He was a sadistic scumbag through and through, unrepentant til the day he died.

 

His family has a lot of money and he lived a privileged life before and after WWII. I hope he enjoys eternity in a "very warm hot place".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutsuhiro_Watanabe

 

Just goes to show how we treated war criminals of the Japanese v/s those of the Nazis.

Could you imagine a German who'd done all that, being allowed to live a normal life just because he was smart enough to lay low during the Nuremburg trials? Yeah, no gonna happen, GI!

Scarier still, the US government voided the rights of former POWs of the Japanese to sue the Japanese government for pain and suffering. I'm no lawyer but I didn't realize anyone can void someone else's rights entirely, especially those who were civilians not connected to the US government at all, like the contractors nabbed by the Japanese at the start of the war...

[KASTAUFFER]

Just goes to show how we treated war criminals of the Japanese v/s those of the Nazis.

Could you imagine a German who'd done all that, being allowed to live a normal life just because he was smart enough to lay low during the Nuremburg trials? Yeah, no gonna happen, GI!

Scarier still, the US government voided the rights of former POWs of the Japanese to sue the Japanese government for pain and suffering. I'm no lawyer but I didn't realize anyone can void someone else's rights entirely, especially those who were civilians not connected to the US government at all, like the contractors nabbed by the Japanese at the start of the war...

Exactly. German war criminals were treated differently long term than the Japanese war criminals were. There are still German's being prosecuted to this very day. Once we left Japan, the prosecutions stopped. My Uncle filled out a deposition for the Far East War Crime Trials. It is in the Archives in Records Group 331.

 

[doyler]

In addition and what has not been mentioned yet is the ordeal surviving the 47 days at sea, this in itself is a constant 24-7 punishment of the body and mind, it Never stops. In some way the POW camp could be a reprieve to a point. You have dehydration, malnutrition, salt water sores, sun burn, constant submersion in salt water, dry mouth, blister, dry skin, zero protection from the elements and lost hope of rescue as one of their shipmates simply died of depression. Its all a mental game in the end we can all only hope to have that perseverance in times like those and in the case of Zambrini ..from the frying pan to the fire.

Dustin

 

I couldnt agree more and have wanted to add this as well.

 

To me this is why its such a story of survival.47 days lost at sea then to be captured.Just amazing while mind boggling that the odds were so set agaist him and the crew.To survive a landing at sea is a miricle then to survive the ordeal at sea.I read Eddie Rickenbackers story of being downed at sea as well.The ocean is a desert but made of water and isnt very forgiving.

 

If Louie was playing cards he surely got dealt a bad hand.

[doyler]

I have always been puzzled by the lack of prosecution of the individuals in the War Crimes of the Pacific.I had met a POW and Death march survivor here.Glenn McDole(sp) was a Marine captured and then ended up at Palawan.He wrote a book of his experiances.He also returned to post war Japan to testify and then led a life of being a State Policeman here.

 

He spoke of the conditions at the camp and then how they were put into a air raid trench under the assumption of the air raid just to be executed.The Japanese then tried to burn them while in the trench.He was able to survive.The Japanes wanted to elimante them as they new the camp was to be liberated

[Government Issue]

Was that "The Bird" at the Olympics? I can find no reference anywhere to that being him, but I thought it was the whole movie.

 

I read the book on my flight back home from College over Christmas break. I don't recall anywhere in the book where "The Bird" was at the olympics.

 

In regards to war criminals, I understand that the Germans were thoroughly prosecuted and pursued for their crimes following WWII but there were and probably still are a number of the bastards still living a care free life.

 

For instance, The Commandant of the Berga Death camp for hundreds of U.S. G.I.s and Jews walked out scott free from an execution sentence by U.S. forces in exchange for information on the soviets in the late '40s. Lived to be an old man and died in peace. There are countless other freaks that walked away scott free that deserved to die.

 

As far as Japan is concerned, their own ignorance of their country's actions from '37-'45 disgusts me. I had the privilege of knowing a survivor of Bataan and to know that their current education on the subject is that their country honorably defended themselves against the "Western devils" pisses me off more-so than I can reasonably express here.

 

They performed vivisections on downed B29 aircrew members (look it up it happened!), they put people in pits, dumped gas on them and lit them ablaze, rescued people from the ocean only to tie them to the conning towers of their submarines and drown them by diving under the waves. They made games in Manchuria on how many babies they could kabab on bayonets, how many times a woman could be raped before she died, or using live people as tools for bayonet practice. They hacked people and prisoner's heads of with single swings from their sammurai swords, ran them through with bayonets, and beat them with bamboo rods.

 

Yeah, Japan was real civil and legal in defending itself from "Western devils"...

[ViewfinderGyrene]

 

I read the book on my flight back home from College over Christmas break. I don't recall anywhere in the book where "The Bird" was at the olympics.

 

In regards to war criminals, I understand that the Germans were thoroughly prosecuted and pursued for their crimes following WWII but there were and probably still are a number of the bastards still living a care free life.

 

For instance, The Commandant of the Berga Death camp for hundreds of U.S. G.I.s and Jews walked out scott free from an execution sentence by U.S. forces in exchange for information on the soviets in the late '40s. Lived to be an old man and died in peace. There are countless other freaks that walked away scott free that deserved to die.

 

As far as Japan is concerned, their own ignorance of their country's actions from '37-'45 disgusts me. I had the privilege of knowing a survivor of Bataan and to know that their current education on the subject is that their country honorably defended themselves against the "Western devils" pisses me off more-so than I can reasonably express here.

 

They performed vivisections on downed B29 aircrew members (look it up it happened!), they put people in pits, dumped gas on them and lit them ablaze, rescued people from the ocean only to tie them to the conning towers of their submarines and drown them by diving under the waves. They made games in Manchuria on how many babies they could kabab on bayonets, how many times a woman could be raped before she died, or using live people as tools for bayonet practice. They hacked people and prisoner's heads of with single swings from their sammurai swords, ran them through with bayonets, and beat them with bamboo rods.

 

Yeah, Japan was real civil and legal in defending itself from "Western devils"...

 

You just summed up everything I have ever wanted to say on the subject. I leave it to the vets to reconcile if they choose, and I admire Zamperini's faith to have brought him to the decision to do so. I cannot bring myself to have any type of sympathy or interest in "joint remembrance". They did not think of it as soldier-to-soldier. We were sub-human to them. If the modern citizens of Japan have no interest in remembering such things in order to guard against it in the future, I have nothing to say to them.

 

Having travelled to attend Van Kirk's funereal, a Tokyo news crew had the nerve to corner a friend of mine who was in Dutch's class at Navigation School. They actually expected my friend and others to spit out some sort of apology to the Japanese people....revisiting the horrors of their treatment only makes me smile when I think of my friend's response- he does NOT mince words...

 

I have no hate toward them personally mind you, but I find any nation which ignores past mistakes [to say the least] to be complete fools...

[Garandomatic]

You forgot cannibalism of B-29 men. Happened off of Ie SHima, I think.

[ViewfinderGyrene]

I read about one crew, 444th BG. They were downed somewhere, half the crew survived. Took the pilot down into a cave, and as his interrogation, cut his hands between each finger all the way to his wrists [where that nerve is in our arms that is supposedly the most sensitive of all]. Then cut out his tongue and beheaded him in front of the rest of the crew.... Pete Sabo was the name ofthe pilot.

 

Also heard about canibalism in the later Philippines campaign. A bunch of Raiders came upon American GIs who were gutted like pigs!

 

All these things contribute to why every American who's thankful for their way of life should see this film...

[BROBS]

 

I read the book on my flight back home from College over Christmas break. I don't recall anywhere in the book where "The Bird" was at the olympics.

He wasn't there..

I believe he was shown as a "vision" at that time in the movie.

I will have to see it again to be sure, as it's only for a second.

 

-Brian

[strawberry 9]

You forgot cannibalism of B-29 men. Happened off of Ie SHima, I think.

 

This is covered in detail in the book "Flyboys" by James Bradley.

[willysmb44]

Many years ago, I saw on the news where an older Chinese man almost kill a Japanese man with his bare hands. The Japanese man was at an airplane museum, spewing all that insanity they believe about how victimized they were in WW2. Turned out, the Chinese man lost his entire family at Nanking and snapped, knowing the Japanese only teach of the bombings of the homeland and the nukes, not the truly horrific things they did to their enemies that even the Nazis would have probably been squeamish with...

[Garandomatic]

 

This is covered in detail in the book "Flyboys" by James Bradley.

And "D-Days In the Pacific" by Donald L. Miller. That's where I read about it the first time.

[willysmb44]

I keep hoping to see a good movie someday about the POW camps on the Eastern Front. You wanna see some chilling POW stats? Even the Japanese were rank amateurs in terms in numbers, for the Russians who died in German hands, or the percentages in Russian POW camps once the fortunes of war were reversed (and arguably even more horrific when you consider how many German probably died in Russian hands years after the war was over).

I'm reading Siegfried Knappe's book, 'Soldat' right now, and it's no wonder German soldiers feared fighting the Russians and were terrified at the idea of being captured by them. And of course, the Russians fared worse earlier in the war at German hands.

[ken]

I read the book and I saw "Unbroken" and enjoyed it but something was missing. The Japanese guard, "Bird" was not as brutal as depicted in the book. The movie did not do justice to the actual suffering to which Zamporini was subjected. The opening scenes and the scenes shot in the liferaft were very well done and interesting. One saw the human emotion each of the men in the raft were feeling. But, the prison scenes seemed to be watered down and thus much of the emotion was drained. I thought that I might have been somewhat influenced because i had read the book but I discussed this with another person who had not read the book and she felt the same way.

 

Anyway, I recommend that you see the movie. I also grew up during WW2 and had friends and relatives who witnessed the terrible consequences of war. Their stories need to be told undiluted.

[cutiger83]

I read about one crew, 444th BG. They were downed somewhere, half the crew survived. Took the pilot down into a cave, and as his interrogation, cut his hands between each finger all the way to his wrists [where that nerve is in our arms that is supposedly the most sensitive of all]. Then cut out his tongue and beheaded him in front of the rest of the crew.... Pete Sabo was the name of the pilot.

 

 

Sgt Pete Sabo was a gunner and not the pilot. According to the report, the surviving crew was beheaded but it says nothing about the other items you mentioned.

 

http://www.444thbg.org/sabopete.htm

 

I am not defending the atrocities but if facts are going to be discussed, then they need to be truthful with proof provided.

 

....Kat

[ViewfinderGyrene]

 

Sgt Pete Sabo was a gunner and not the pilot. According to the report, the surviving crew was beheaded but it says nothing about the other items you mentioned.

 

http://www.444thbg.org/sabopete.htm

 

I am not defending the atrocities but if facts are going to be discussed, then they need to be truthful with proof provided.

 

....Kat

 

It was not directly from the 444th website, in fact I cannot remember the site. It was a depository cache of online transcripts from interviews of surviving Japanese soldiers and military-governement liaison officials....wish I had downloaded it looking back, extremely detailed site...

[Wharfmaster]

Also, don't forget about the horrors of Japanese Unit 731 in Manchuria. Look it up.

 

 

W

[ViewfinderGyrene]

Also, don't forget about the horrors of Japanese Unit 731 in Manchuria. Look it up.

 

 

W

 

 

Worst I have ever read, truly hororifif and disgusting, yet next to nobody knows about it. Whenever medical experiments come up on topic, people ONLY Buchenwald etc...their operations were disgusting in their own right, but nobody knows about PTO incidents other than the Rape of Nanking...