pconrad02 Posted July 9, 2008 Share #27 Posted July 9, 2008 NS Meyer Hallmarks (reproduced with permission) ASMIC Trading Post Jan-Mar 1986 So as not to repost everything check ot this thread http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=16492 on our own forum and this one http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...highlight=meyer at thta OTHER forum Link to comment
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #29 Posted July 11, 2008 These are the four types of K.G. Luke hallmarks I have catalogued. First up is the one most commonly found on the full size wings and Officers Submarine pins. The K.G. Luke is raised and the STERLING is impressed. The STERLING mark is almost allways underneath the maker mark. Link to comment
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #30 Posted July 11, 2008 This is the mark most commonly encountered on almost all rank and branch insignia. The hallmark is raised and in most cases rather crudely done. The crudeness is a feature of almost all wartime K.G. Luke hallmarks. There are the occasional marks that are well rendered but they are the exception. These are the four types of K.G. Luke hallmarks I have catalogued. First up is the one most commonly found on the full size wings and Officers Submarine pins. The K.G. Luke is raised and the STERLING is impressed. The STERLING mark is almost allways underneath the maker mark. Link to comment
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #31 Posted July 11, 2008 This mark is most commonly seen on Cap Badges and I have also seen it used on an infantry officers branch insignia. This is the mark most commonly encountered on almost all rank and branch insignia. The hallmark is raised and in most cases rather crudely done. The crudeness is a feature of almost all wartime K.G. Luke hallmarks. There are the occasional marks that are well rendered but they are the exception. Link to comment
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #32 Posted July 11, 2008 This is the only mark I have seen that is impressed. It is seen on silver captains bars(that are not marked STERLING for some reason even though they are) and 1st Lt bars. I have also seen it used on a USMC officers collar EGA but so far on nothing else.. This mark is most commonly seen on Cap Badges and I have also seen it used on an infantry officers branch insignia. Link to comment
CliffP Posted December 31, 2008 Share #33 Posted December 31, 2008 Keystone Publishing Company - The Jeweler's Index for 1922 http://www.chicagosilver.com/jmarks1.htm US military badge hallmarks http://www.wartimecollectables.com/zhallmarks.htm Collecting American wings - The Orber Company of WWII. http://www.wartimecollectables.com/zorber_wing_article.htm Manufacturers of U.S. Metal Emblems - Alphabetical W.W.I to Present (See Thread #1) http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ead.php?t=84409 The Online Encyclopedia of American Silver Marks http://www.silvercollecting.com/ Online Encyclopedia of Silver Marks, Hallmarks & Makers' Marks http://www.925-1000.com/ Reproductions & Fakes -U.S. Airborne & Elite Unit Insignia by Les Hughes http://www.insigne.org/Fakes-I-Abn.htm Link to comment
CliffP Posted December 31, 2008 Share #34 Posted December 31, 2008 There is a great deal of information relative to hallmarks/backmarks posted on the following websites: Keystone Publishing Company - The Jeweler's Index for 1922 http://www.chicagosilver.com/jmarks1.htm US military badge hallmarks Has a couple of mistakes but overall it is helpful. http://www.wartimecollectables.com/zhallmarks.htm Collecting American wings - The Orber Company of WWII. http://www.wartimecollectables.com/zorber_wing_article.htm Manufacturers of U.S. Metal Emblems - Alphabetical W.W.I to Present (See Thread #1) http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ead.php?t=84409 The Online Encyclopedia of American Silver Marks http://www.silvercollecting.com/ Online Encyclopedia of Silver Marks, Hallmarks & Makers' Marks http://www.925-1000.com/ Link to comment
MAA Posted July 19, 2010 Share #35 Posted July 19, 2010 I know through previous threads there has been ongoing questions surrounding the authenticity and legitimacy of LG Balfour wings that also have an "S" struck below the LGB hallmark. Back in the mid-90's I was able to purchase two complete salesman sample cases of Balfour insignia which came directly from the son of a Balfour salesman who worked for Balfour during WW2 and beyond. One case contained AAF wings (shown) and the other US Navy insignia including some wings. All of the AAF silver wings were hallmarked either "LGB" or "Balfour" (boxed) depending on size, and virtually (all) were also struck with a "S" below the Balfour hallmark. As you can see from my images, there is a beautiful Balloon trio present in the case, and I believe a Balloon wing was an example in question in a previous thread? All of these wings are absolutely pristine. I'm not sure how many of these sample cases existed, but I'm sure there were probably several. I was fortunate to obtain one that had remained untouched and perfectly intact. My images show the actual case of AAF wings, including a letter from the son detailing the cases, including mention of the "S" hallmark on them. My deduction is that the "S" was used on (sample) insignia made by Balfour. Who knows if they made samples hallmarked in this way of all of their insignia or not? Hopefully this helps add some concrete information surrounding this discussion. Dave Link to comment
Paul S Posted July 20, 2010 Share #36 Posted July 20, 2010 What a terrific posting. Answers a lot of questions with one picture. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and for nailing it shut with the picture!! Paul Link to comment
Paul S Posted July 20, 2010 Share #37 Posted July 20, 2010 A question...can't tell from your picture if the Observer and Flight Surgeon wings are the finely feathered designs that are distinctly different from most of the others? Also, are the Command Pilot and Senior Pilot wings the first pattern similar to that used by AMCRAFT? Also, can you make any assumption about the use of the Balfour vs. LGB hallmark on these wings? The basic question I have about the two marks is how they chose to use which mark on which wings. Paul Link to comment
MAA Posted July 20, 2010 Share #38 Posted July 20, 2010 Hi Paul, The Flight Surgeon, Technical Observer and Observer wings are all the fine feathered variations. The Command and Senior Pilots are the large / tall shield first pattern which is similar to the Amcraft design. I believe the (boxed) "Balfour" was used primarily for the 2" and smaller wings, though there appears to be exception to that in the full size Navy wings ~ go figure? Why they used "LGB" vs "Balfour" and when, I do not know? Dave A question...can't tell from your picture if the Observer and Flight Surgeon wings are the finely feathered designs that are distinctly different from most of the others? Also, are the Command Pilot and Senior Pilot wings the first pattern similar to that used by AMCRAFT? Also, can you make any assumption about the use of the Balfour vs. LGB hallmark on these wings? The basic question I have about the two marks is how they chose to use which mark on which wings. Paul Link to comment
rustywings Posted July 20, 2010 Share #39 Posted July 20, 2010 Hello Dave, Thank you for sharing your beautiful and documented case of Balfour badges. Your opinion that the stamped "S" stands for 'Sample' may very well be correct. However, if that is true, then what are the wings made with? Since they don't possess a government required precious metal marking like Silver, Sterling, Gold Washed, or 1/20th 10KGF, are we to assume the samples are made of a lesser composite or pot metal? I'm throwing this idea out there as more of a question, than a statement. Russ PS. Any chance of getting a couple of close-up views of the back of your Balloon Pilot wings for comparison? Link to comment
MAA Posted July 20, 2010 Share #40 Posted July 20, 2010 Hi Russ, I will work on getting you a close-up of the Balloon wing in the short term :thumbsup: Regarding the metal type of the AAF wings, I am very sure these wings are indeed sterling silver, though not marked. They have the same weight and "feel" of other sterling marked Balfour wings that I have had in comparison. My thought regarding why they were not hallmarked as sterling, was possibly the "S" was struck instead given that these particular pieces may have never been intended to be sold or worn? Not sure of that as a fact, just a thought. All of the Navy wings and insignia are hallmarked 1/20 10K GF and the like. Dave Link to comment
pfrost Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share #41 Posted July 20, 2010 Hi Russ, I will work on getting you a close-up of the Balloon wing in the short term :thumbsup: Regarding the metal type of the AAF wings, I am very sure these wings are indeed sterling silver, though not marked. They have the same weight and "feel" of other sterling marked Balfour wings that I have had in comparison. My thought regarding why they were not hallmarked as sterling, was possibly the "S" was struck instead given that these particular pieces may have never been intended to be sold or worn? Not sure of that as a fact, just a thought. All of the Navy wings and insignia are hallmarked 1/20 10K GF and the like. Dave Do any of the wings have the riveted center device or are they one piecers? Also, how thick are they compared to other Balfour wings? Super nice collection of wings there! Thanks for sharing. Patrick Link to comment
MAA Posted July 20, 2010 Share #42 Posted July 20, 2010 Hi Patrick, The Flight Surgeon, Gunner and Bombardier wings are all riveted. They are identical in every way to any other WW2 Balfour wing made, except for the "S" hallmark. Dave Link to comment
B-17Guy Posted July 20, 2010 Share #43 Posted July 20, 2010 Beautiful set! Great information, thanks for sharing. Cheers, John Link to comment
MAA Posted July 23, 2010 Share #44 Posted July 23, 2010 Hi Russ, Here are the Balloon wings as requested ~ the Balfour hallmark was not as I had remembered it, as they are marked "Balfour" "S" and not "LGB" "S". Some are marked "LGB" and some are "Balfour". Dave Hello Dave, Thank you for sharing your beautiful and documented case of Balfour badges. Your opinion that the stamped "S" stands for 'Sample' may very well be correct. However, if that is true, then what are the wings made with? Since they don't possess a government required precious metal marking like Silver, Sterling, Gold Washed, or 1/20th 10KGF, are we to assume the samples are made of a lesser composite or pot metal? I'm throwing this idea out there as more of a question, than a statement. Russ PS. Any chance of getting a couple of close-up views of the back of your Balloon Pilot wings for comparison? Link to comment
rustywings Posted July 24, 2010 Share #45 Posted July 24, 2010 Absolutely teriffic Dave! Your Balloon Pilot/Observer grouping is a real treat. Thanks for all of your efforts in posting this most impressive grouping! Russ Link to comment
John Cooper Posted July 29, 2010 Share #46 Posted July 29, 2010 Dave - thank you very much for sharing this gem you have! I have a few questions for you. 1) do you have any indication of when the Balfour salesman recieved these samples as a set? 2) Can you provide a few more photos... specifically of the Command and Senior pilot and the FS wing (fron and back please) Thanks for the great post. John Link to comment
bazelot Posted September 13, 2010 Share #47 Posted September 13, 2010 Maybe this can start a pinned thread. I started a small library of hallmarks of wings as I find them and posted them on my website here: I know a few of the rather rarer hallmarks have escaped me. Most of these hallmarks are from wings in my collection with a few images "borrowed" off of ebay http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/06.html Not a complete listing, but as I find them, I try to post them. I know a few other websites have some nice listing of wing and insignia hallmarks. Maybe they can be added to this thread. Also, (if I may) the WAF forum has a super nice detailed listing of companies that were involved in making wings, medals and insignia from about 1917 to yesterday. Patrick Patrick, The link does not work anymore. Was it moved? Tom Link to comment
pfrost Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share #48 Posted September 13, 2010 Patrick,The link does not work anymore. Was it moved? Tom Hi I changed my webpage. Here is the main page. http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/Home.html and here is the hallmark page. http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/Hallmarks.html Link to comment
bazelot Posted September 13, 2010 Share #49 Posted September 13, 2010 Hi I changed my webpage. Here is the main page. http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/Home.html and here is the hallmark page. http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/Hallmarks.html Thanks Patrick. That 's a great site. Do you think those wings are WWII? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT Link to comment
pfrost Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share #50 Posted September 13, 2010 Thanks Patrick. That 's a great site.Do you think those wings are WWII? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT Thanks, and yes, I would say classic WWII style AMICO wings. Patrick Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now