GLM Posted January 31, 2007 Share #26 Posted January 31, 2007 Here are several more on mine. No. 14353, John C. Collins, 1st Enlistment, 1917-1921 Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLM Posted January 31, 2007 Share #27 Posted January 31, 2007 M/Sgt Ragan...1st Enlistment was an "Army" Enlistment Bill, Do you have any information on engraved 2nd Enlistment medals? Was it that they didn't earn the GCM because of misconduct during their first enlistment or some other reason? Would Army qualify as 1st enlistment? Look at the spread in medal numbers between the Karnath and Tracy medals. Both were 2nd enlistments from 1920-22 period, so I just can't understand this spread? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCR79 Posted January 31, 2007 Share #28 Posted January 31, 2007 Bill, Do you have any information on engraved 2nd Enlistment medals? Was it that they didn't earn the GCM because of misconduct during their first enlistment or some other reason? Would Army qualify as 1st enlistment? Look at the spread in medal numbers between the Karnath and Tracy medals. Both were 2nd enlistments from 1920-22 period, so I just can't understand this spread? Gary Gary, The Karnath GCM does have a very high number for that time period. I have been told unoffically that the 20000 to 80000 numbers refer to the rim numbered medals of the WWI period. Is it possible that Karnath received a rim numbered medal as a 1st enlistment Marine of the WWI period and Re-enlisted (2nd Enlistment) in the Regular Marine Corps 1920-22 and this was the medal he received? It does seem confusing, but Ragan only served a 3 month "duration of war" enlistment in the Army....but it was a recognized Federal Enlistment Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCR79 Posted January 31, 2007 Share #29 Posted January 31, 2007 Bill,truly some beautiful pieces. I thought 35 was impressive, 55 is amazing. Some great shots of the 2 and 4 bar examples. Dan, I've been collecting for 36 years....I couldn't afford to buy my collection at today's prices. I enjoy our hobby for the historical aspect, but as we all agree....it is an investment. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichjr Posted January 31, 2007 Share #30 Posted January 31, 2007 Unusual name Cuno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted February 1, 2007 Share #31 Posted February 1, 2007 Does anyone have any examples with " Extension of Enlistment" bars? Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLM Posted February 1, 2007 Share #32 Posted February 1, 2007 Gary, The Karnath GCM does have a very high number for that time period. I have been told unoffically that the 20000 to 80000 numbers refer to the rim numbered medals of the WWI period. Is it possible that Karnath received a rim numbered medal as a 1st enlistment Marine of the WWI period and Re-enlisted (2nd Enlistment) in the Regular Marine Corps 1920-22 and this was the medal he received? It does seem confusing, but Ragan only served a 3 month "duration of war" enlistment in the Army....but it was a recognized Federal Enlistment Bill Bill, Thanks for that tidbit! That is an interesting idea on Karnath's 2nd enlistment medal and could very well be the case on his and the beautiful high numbered medal erichjr just posted from the same end of enlistment period. I'm in the process of getting some requests on several medals off to NPRC, of which Karnath's is one, so maybe I'll get to the bottom of it. There hasn't been much written on earlier Marine GCM's and much of that that has, I've found to be erroneoneous through collected examples. Here is an article a friend copied for me from an early OMSA article 30 years ago and if you are correct about the rim numbered WWI medals ranging in numbers from 20,000 through 80,000 instead of the 50,000 medals from number 20,000 through 70,000 the author of this article states, then it would explain allot. While he states GCM's rim numbered above No. 70,000 would be the rare hand engraved Type IX's, I have an impressed or stamped rim number 70,141 that goes with a documented, attributed WWI grouping. This would support your claim that the numbers may have gone as high as 80,000 and would also support your idea on the high 2nd Enlistment number on the Karnath medal. GCM rim numbers are listed in the WWI service records, so possible they took Karnath's number from his service records to carry over to his engraved 2nd Enlistment replacement or Regular Marine medal? While we are discussing possibilities, do you have many rim numbers above 70,000? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCR79 Posted February 1, 2007 Share #33 Posted February 1, 2007 Bill, Thanks for that tidbit! That is an interesting idea on Karnath's 2nd enlistment medal and could very well be the case on his and the beautiful high numbered medal erichjr just posted from the same end of enlistment period. I'm in the process of getting some requests on several medals off to NPRC, of which Karnath's is one, so maybe I'll get to the bottom of it. There hasn't been much written on earlier Marine GCM's and much of that that has, I've found to be erroneoneous through collected examples. Here is an article a friend copied for me from an early OMSA article 30 years ago and if you are correct about the rim numbered WWI medals ranging in numbers from 20,000 through 80,000 instead of the 50,000 medals from number 20,000 through 70,000 the author of this article states, then it would explain allot. While he states GCM's rim numbered above No. 70,000 would be the rare hand engraved Type IX's, I have an impressed or stamped rim number 70,141 that goes with a documented, attributed WWI grouping. This would support your claim that the numbers may have gone as high as 80,000 and would also support your idea on the high 2nd Enlistment number on the Karnath medal. GCM rim numbers are listed in the WWI service records, so possible they took Karnath's number from his service records to carry over to his engraved 2nd Enlistment replacement or Regular Marine medal? While we are discussing possibilities, do you have many rim numbers above 70,000? Gary Gary, I have had one in the 68000 range....that's the highest I've seen Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted February 1, 2007 Share #34 Posted February 1, 2007 Here's the back... I did a search on Ancestry.com and believe "Harry" could be Harrison M. Hutchengs, born 16 Jan 1880, died 9 Nov 1957 in St. Louis County Minnesota. Could not find a Harry in any database. Gary Putnam (the Wharfmaster) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Smith Posted February 1, 2007 Share #35 Posted February 1, 2007 Does anyone have any examples with " Extension of Enlistment" bars? Kurt Here is one for you Kurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted February 3, 2007 Share #36 Posted February 3, 2007 Here is an image of then Gunnery Sgt Daly with his medals take from that same approximate time frame, c. 1919 when he was placed on inactive status with the Reserve following the War. He retired officially as a Sgt. Maj. in 1929 and died in 1937. I am currently working on a biography of the Sgt. Maj. (three years and counting) and have also met with one of his few living family members. It appears from this image that he is wearing 3 bars on his good conduct at this point, strange as he had enlisted in 1899. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted February 3, 2007 Share #37 Posted February 3, 2007 Howdy DevilDan Great image of Daly which I personally have never seen before. Thanks for posting it. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4STARCHRIS Posted February 7, 2007 Share #38 Posted February 7, 2007 LTG Berkeley medal group. Note Good Conduct Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4STARCHRIS Posted February 7, 2007 Share #39 Posted February 7, 2007 LTG Berkeley reverse Good Conduct Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDan1900 Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share #40 Posted February 7, 2007 Judging by the lack of a top bar and very square engraving / stamping style on the General's GC Medal, it's safe to say that this example is definately post WW11. Interesting that the General didn't retain his originally issued medal with it's engraved re-enlistment bars, etc from 1926. Probably due to buying a "new" set at the time for this particular uniform. A very nice piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCR79 Posted February 7, 2007 Share #41 Posted February 7, 2007 Judging by the lack of a top bar and very square engraving / stamping style on the General's GC Medal, it's safe to say that this example is definately post WW11. Interesting that the General didn't retain his originally issued medal with it's engraved re-enlistment bars, etc from 1926. Probably due to buying a "new" set at the time for this particular uniform. A very nice piece. Dan, My take on this is that the ribbon and rifle hanger are replaced....however, based upon the engraving style (hand engraving) and the number, I think that the planchet is original 1930 period. I have some mounted groups from career marines in the 1930-50 period and usually the top bar get discarded since it does not line up well on the mounted group. Additional enlistment bars usually get replaced by stars which gives a more "squared away" appearence. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCR79 Posted February 21, 2007 Share #42 Posted February 21, 2007 Some singles from my collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDan1900 Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share #43 Posted February 21, 2007 Stunning collection, I would honestly say that is the largest grouping of period GCMs I have seen at one time. Beautiful pieces, thanks for posting the image!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloman Posted February 21, 2007 Share #44 Posted February 21, 2007 When did the Marine Corps stop putting the bar on the top of the ribbon section? I have one, but it is missing the "MARINE CORPS" from the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCR79 Posted February 21, 2007 Share #45 Posted February 21, 2007 I think the top bar disappeared around 1958 Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloman Posted February 21, 2007 Share #46 Posted February 21, 2007 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted March 10, 2007 Share #47 Posted March 10, 2007 On the USMC Gcm's....note that these were issues approximatly 1910 with 2 different styles of engraving and formatting (specific date vs. date span) I think that this is interesting since it seems that engraving styles overlapped. Bill Nice USMC GCMs. Keeping in mind that in 1910 a Marine had to re-enlist to receive a GCM, James W. Scott did so Aug 29, 1910 and received his badge No. 1659 in what is referred to as Harris Type III engraving. Napoleon Byron took his discharge in 1910; did not re-enlist until likely in 1913 and having qualified earlier, then received GCM badge No. 3971 in the Harris Type IV engraving. The GCM numbers were sequential and unless effected by a broken enlistment, were pretty much chronological through 1938 when the "A" & "B" prefixes began. Marines who enlisted prior to Pearl Harbor continued to receive engraved medals while those who were post-Dec 7th got impressed medals through about 1951 when naming ceased. Hope this helps...Semper Fi! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightn5th Posted April 24, 2007 Share #48 Posted April 24, 2007 Here is a WW1 group to Charles Hubley - 16th Co. 5th Marine Regt. Purchased this in 1991 from New York. Group came with several docuemts - his honorable discharge, good conduct, transmittal letter of official copies of Croix de Guerre to the 5th Regt. as a unit, and war service certificate. Other items included his fourragere, painted Indian head patch, and dog tags. His ribbon bar shows four stars but the transmittal letter for the Victory medal only indicates he rates three stars. The small red, white, and blue pin is a St. Aloysius pin. The photo is of Hubley and his mother. The Croix de Guerre came with the group but records from St. Louis don't show award of Croix de Guerre. I guess he felt he rated it for taking part in all battle engagements participated in during the war, or maybe just acquired it as a souvenir. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted April 24, 2007 Share #49 Posted April 24, 2007 It is possible to check with the French Government to see if they have a record of his CdG. I did this a few years back. I will see if I can find the address. Here is a WW1 group to Charles Hubley - 16th Co. 5th Marine Regt. Purchased this in 1991 from New York. Group came with several docuemts - his honorable discharge, good conduct, transmittal letter of official copies of Croix de Guerre to the 5th Regt. as a unit, and war service certificate. Other items included his fourragere, painted Indian head patch, and dog tags. His ribbon bar shows four stars but the transmittal letter for the Victory medal only indicates he rates three stars. The small red, white, and blue pin is a St. Aloysius pin. The photo is of Hubley and his mother. The Croix de Guerre came with the group but records from St. Louis don't show award of Croix de Guerre. I guess he felt he rated it for taking part in all battle engagements participated in during the war, or maybe just acquired it as a souvenir. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted April 24, 2007 Share #50 Posted April 24, 2007 Gentlemen, Were stars used on the Good Conduct ribbon bars to indicate subsequent awards? The army used knots on the ribbon bar, so was there a method used by the USMC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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