Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Croix de Guerre

99th Aero Squadron Wing

Recommended Posts

Here is a close-up of a wing on a Paris made uniform ID'd to a pilot who flew with the 99th Aero Squadron in WWI. And yes, that is a real 99th Aero squadron pin!

post-3356-1214406575.jpg


WANTED TO BUY OR TRADE - AMERICAN FIELD SERVICE, NORTON-HARJES AMBULANCE CORPS, AMERICAN RED CROSS IN ITALY, CZECH AND POLISH LEGIONS AND ANY ARTIFACTS ASSOCIATED WITH AMERICANS THAT SERVED IN FOREIGN ARMIES IN WORLD WAR ONE

 

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

 

ecSXx.jpg

 

"Je meurs content, puisque nous sommes victorieux! Vive la France!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VERY nice! bravo.gif


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
donation2007.gifdonation2008.gif
donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gif
donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is a close-up of a wing on a Paris made uniform ID'd to a pilot who flew with the 99th Aero Squadron in WWI. And yes, that is a real 99th Aero squadron pin!

 

I saw the small buffalo pin on your 99th Aero Squadron tunic and it reminded me of this: I have small grouping from the 322nd Aero Squadron. On the tunic, left breast pocket, on the back side of the pocket flap is pinned this small brass block. Would this be nothing more than a weight to keep the flap down or any other ideas? Thanks.

tunic_10.jpg


Check out my website of Military Relics and Collectibles: http://www.ourboysof98.com
I try to update it by adding several new items each month, so keep checking back.

Thanks,
keith

donation2011.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest ajsr7171

Very Very Nice 99th AS Buffalo pin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I saw the small buffalo pin on your 99th Aero Squadron tunic and it reminded me of this: I have small grouping from the 322nd Aero Squadron. On the tunic, left breast pocket, on the back side of the pocket flap is pinned this small brass block. Would this be nothing more than a weight to keep the flap down or any other ideas? Thanks.

tunic_10.jpg

Wow, I have never seen anything like that before,,I could wager a guess but I'd just be spitballing. It could be just that, a weight to help hold down the pocket flap. think.gif


WANTED TO BUY OR TRADE - AMERICAN FIELD SERVICE, NORTON-HARJES AMBULANCE CORPS, AMERICAN RED CROSS IN ITALY, CZECH AND POLISH LEGIONS AND ANY ARTIFACTS ASSOCIATED WITH AMERICANS THAT SERVED IN FOREIGN ARMIES IN WORLD WAR ONE

 

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

 

ecSXx.jpg

 

"Je meurs content, puisque nous sommes victorieux! Vive la France!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom,

 

This is a beautiful wing. I have two questions:

 

1. You stated the uniform is French made, is this wing also considered to be a French made example?

2. Was this loose chain stitching to secure the wing to the tunic something that can be found on other uniforms, or was it just that particular tailor's "trademark"?

 

The work is very fine, and the lighter shade of thread coloring sets it off nicely against the black.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

If you look at the bullion wing thread I started a few weeks back you can see the differences of a French made and US made wing. The French ones Usually, have the three rows of bullion to execute the feathering. If you look at US made examples the pattern is different, the feathering is done with several rows of bullion accented by black thread, between the individual feathers. The thread will be between them not over the bullion. The French were very artistic with thier bullion. I would gather the chain stitching was done by the tailor at the time.. Paul


 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 

https://www.facebook.com/BROLHD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve,

If you look at the bullion wing thread I started a few weeks back you can see the differences of a French made and US made wing. The French ones Usually, have the three rows of bullion to execute the feathering. If you look at US made examples the pattern is different, the feathering is done with several rows of bullion accented by black thread, between the individual feathers. The thread will be between them not over the bullion. The French were very artistic with thier bullion. I would gather the chain stitching was done by the tailor at the time.. Paul

 

 

Paul,

 

Thanks for the reply. I did see the thread. The subject of the thread over the feathers seems to come up in your postings quite often. I guess it is a matter of opinion, but according to my trusted sources, that type is completely legit. I wish that I could post photos from AGM's update yesterday. There were some WWI to c. 1920's Navy/Marine wings that used the exact same method of thread over bullion. As a matter of fact, there are many bullion patches from WWI that use the same technique to highlight details, in particular, hand made bullion 77th Div. patches. So if that was an approach that was used during the period on other insignia, I think it is reasonable to say that it would have been used on wings as well. It is impossible to say that any hand made item (whatever it may be) must conform to a stringent set of guidelines in where thread and wire are placed. Being that different individuals made these in different areas of the world, it is also reasonable to state that differing styles and techniques should be expected. I would be quite suspect of pieces that are supposedly hand made that are absolutely identical in every way every time you encounter one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

 

1. You stated the uniform is French made, is this wing also considered to be a French made example?

This is a classic (practically stereotypical) French made wing. Characterized by flat, uniform, bullion, with nearly horizontal wing feathers each individually "picked out" in contrasting bullion, and a squared shield. The best of the French made wings will also frequently exhibit 13 stars in the canton, and a very uniform "US" upon the shield.

 

2. Was this loose chain stitching to secure the wing to the tunic something that can be found on other uniforms, or was it just that particular tailor's "trademark"?

It actually was more likely done by the pilot's laundress. This type of loose, decorative stitching was often designed so that the wing could be easily removed (by cutting the threads) for laundering, When the uniform was clean, the laundress then would have sewn it back. The fact that this wing is in such fine condition does indicate that it was removed when the jacket was laundered. Laundering is very hard on bullion, which is of course what led to the pin-on type wing badges.

 

Chris


767409605_sigcustom3.png.e95257302e2a500ba241cd8cdc44ff0c.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

 

... The subject of the thread over the feathers seems to come up in your postings quite often. I guess it is a matter of opinion, but according to my trusted sources, that type is completely legit. I wish that I could post photos from AGM's update yesterday. There were some WWI to c. 1920's Navy/Marine wings that used the exact same method of thread over bullion.

 

I know what Paul is getting at, and I tend to agree with his hypothesis. What I believe he is talking about is a uniform area of parallel bullion with the only differentiation being the black thread drawn across (and over it). Let me paraphrase what Duncan Campbell said to me years ago: Look at the quality of work in the known good wings. Compare how the artisan used the individual textures to subtly accentuate the design. Remember that this was a time when craftsmanship was still a very important factor in industry. The fakes just don't measure up! That is not to say that drawing thread across bullion to accentuate the design was never done, but in the spirit of the above, when it is the only means of expressing the design, it tends to betray the lack of skill of the modern reproductionists.

 

As a matter of fact, there are many bullion patches from WWI that use the same technique to highlight details, in particular, hand made bullion 77th Div. patches. So if that was an approach that was used during the period on other insignia, I think it is reasonable to say that it would have been used on wings as well.

I think you are getting to the crux of this. The technique was used to highlight details, not solely or primarily to express the design.

 

It is impossible to say that any hand made item (whatever it may be) must conform to a stringent set of guidelines in where thread and wire are placed. Being that different individuals made these in different areas of the world, it is also reasonable to state that differing styles and techniques should be expected. I would be quite suspect of pieces that are supposedly hand made that are absolutely identical in every way every time you encounter one.

 

I don't think Paul is saying that they must conform to any "stringent" or rigid guidelines; but more as a general rule of thumb. Quite true, throughout the course of the day, even an individual making wings will exhibit variations in their handiwork. But just as a painting by Monet can be recognized as a Monet, pieces made by individual artisans, if compared, will eventually show identifiable trends. Moreover, manufacturers would have ensured their employees adhered to the company standards. There will be variations, but they will tend toward subtlety.

 

The bottom line is, collecting WW1 wings is an expensive hobby. Most collectors simply cannot cavalierly drop the $800-5000 required to be a "player" in this game. Ideally, all of our wings would be biographical--with photos of the pilots wearing them. Still we must be realistic. Most WW1 wings on the market today are not identified to their original owner. Compound that with the fact that perhaps one in ten wings that come up for sale on the loose are even legitimate. Educated discrimination and healthy skepticism are key. I will close with another paraphrase from Duncan; "Better to pass on 10 maybes, and buy one good."

 

Chris


767409605_sigcustom3.png.e95257302e2a500ba241cd8cdc44ff0c.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris,

well put, I think you get what i'm trying to say. From the wise advanced I was taught by, there are a few common factors I follow when I buy a wing. I stick to them and have had some good luck with the knowledge they instilled in me.. Paul


 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 

https://www.facebook.com/BROLHD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is one of the nicest sets I have ever seen!

 

Gary


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gif

 

 

"YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH RED WINE, TOO MANY BOOKS, OR TOO MUCH AMMUNITION."

Rudyard Kipling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to recap (I've already posted this picture before on a thread about this pilot)

 

This wing is from the uniform of Bill Doran of the 99th Aero. It has been pointed out to me by some that it is unusual that the wing was sewn on an angle to match the contour of the pocket.

post-3356-1226497530.jpg


WANTED TO BUY OR TRADE - AMERICAN FIELD SERVICE, NORTON-HARJES AMBULANCE CORPS, AMERICAN RED CROSS IN ITALY, CZECH AND POLISH LEGIONS AND ANY ARTIFACTS ASSOCIATED WITH AMERICANS THAT SERVED IN FOREIGN ARMIES IN WORLD WAR ONE

 

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

 

ecSXx.jpg

 

"Je meurs content, puisque nous sommes victorieux! Vive la France!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.