Missing Insignia from the Institute of Heraldry

[MFT3]

During my last visit to the Institute of Heraldry to do research on the Combat Infantryman Badge, I learned many things about the CIB and the way the IOH works. The IOH is part of the Federal government that is responsible for the design and production of all military insignia for the Armed Forces of the United States. This includes cloth and metal insignia as well as medals and decorations.

The IOH submits designs to the DoD and, once approved, is responsible for establishing the specifications to be used in the manufacturing of that item. Chosen manufacturers then submit product based on those specifications. If the manufacturers sample is approved by the IOH, it is then tagged and catalogued to be the standard by which future product is judged. The cataloging of these items also provides a time record and production history of the items.

As I was looking through dies and examples of the CIB, I noticed there was a lack of certain grades of the CIB. I asked George Cannizzaro why certain examples of the CIB were present and others were not. George explained to me that in the past, before strong security measures were in place, many items had been “borrowed” or stolen. It had been IOH policy to send items on a honor system to “researchers” through the mail, only to have them not returned or switched with other items. The classic example of this is the gold Combat Infantryman Badge. Sixty of the three-inch size badge in grades four thru six were authorized and produced by the Balfour Company. These were delivered on 2 April, 1965 and on 10 May 1965 the Commanding Officer of the IOH, Lt. Col. Steve G. Davis send out document DCSPER-PSD, Combat Infantry Badge, Regular Miniature Size (5^th, 6^th, 7^th, and 8^th) stating “These are prototype samples and not to be placed in the supply system unless need.”

Today (except for two miniatures) no examples of this CIB are found at the IOH. There were no “salesman samples” or “badges slipped out the back door”. According to the IOH any example made by Balfour found in the public is stolen property of the IOH.

Certain parts of the IOH’s cloth insignia catalog are tremendous; their early 20^th century rank insignia is superb with each item looking like it was made yesterday. The same cannot be said of their WWI division and unit patch section.

I mentioned to Thomas Casciaro, Chief, Technical and Production Division at the IOH, that I had seen many items with the IOH sample card and seal for sale at many gun and military shows. He told me that these items are the property of the IOH and that they are considered stolen property and should not be sold.

The IOH does not have sales to raise money (they are federally funded), do not have “garage sales” to make room for other items (they have the room and more than one building), and do not throw away items because they think they are not relevant. If anyone can show documentation to the contrary, I would like to see it.

It is also quite interesting that all of the really nice items that collectors would like to have in their collection cannot be found in the IOH. You can find incredible examples of common rank insignia and plenty of brass insignia for musicians but that rare gold CIB is just not there.

The theft is not something that has happened recently.

Best estimate is it started in the 1950s. “Researchers” started plundering the IOH from then right up to the 1980s. Much paperwork is also missing.

All of this misguided desire to add that special item to their collection has not just damaged the IOH but it has ruined any research work or information for the future. What happened to collectors wanting to preserve history? You are not preserving history by hoarding items in your bedroom! The items in the IOH belong to every American and not to the few collectors that have managed to acquire any of these patches, badges, or medals.

Knowing the obsessive and possessive nature of collectors and their willing belief of any plausible story, you will rationalize your stolen property with the fact that you personally did not steal the item.

[Patchcollector]

Interesting.Thanks for the info and the heads up!I think I have one or two of the sealed patches in my collection,but I think they are salesmans samples.

[vintageproductions]

Instead of attacking collectors, you may want to step down off of your soap box and stop being condescending.

 

I have heard completely different stories about how the insignia came on to the market, and from the person who told me, I trust more then almost anyone in this hobby. He has dealt with many of the former heads of the IOH ( curators or whatever their title is called).

 

If these items were truly stolen have them forward the police theft report, and we will post it. If you or they do not have a police report, do not come on here beating your chest and claiming items are stolen. It is very easy to claim something is stolen, but not have any proof of these actions. Different curators or heads of the IOH, could have gotten rid of these items, whether right or wrong, and instead of saying something could have happened, it is just as easy for the new person to claim the missing items have been stolen.

 

This is not to say that there have not been bad apples going through the IOH over the years, I am sure there have been some. But unless there is concrete proof, don't make accusations of members owning stolen items.

[Alec]

This unfortunately is a common occurrence. In my research at NARA, I would be zeroing in on the most important document dealing with design or purchasing etc and that would always be the one missing. All data leading up to and then after, but the most important one missing. I know many researchers and collectors came before me so it obviously walked out with one of them.

[MFT3]

Bob, instead of attacking collectors what should I do? It wasn't construction workers that stole these items. I realize that people holding these items probably did not steal them, but it does not change the fact that it is still the property of the IOH. Do you think the IOH should file a report with the police? With so many items in their possession, they do not even know what has been stolen over the years. Now they have a lot better system for this. The proof of thieft is the fact that many items that are listed in paperwork as being there (such as the gold CIB) are missing! I am not surprised that this means nothing to you. For the last few years I don't believe anything unless it is from a primary source or from a documented source. Unlike most collectors, I refuse to speculate or believe stories told by "collectors".

[MFT3]

Alec, you are so right! I can tell you have been on the research trail yourself. Maybe the curators decided the papers weren't needed anymore and had a "clearance sale".

[tredhed2]

Instead of attacking collectors, you may want to step down off of your soap box and stop being condescending.

 

I have heard completely different stories about how the insignia came on to the market, and from the person who told me, I trust more then almost anyone in this hobby. He has dealt with many of the former heads of the IOH ( curators or whatever their title is called).

 

If these items were truly stolen have them forward the police theft report, and we will post it. If you or they do not have a police report, do not come on here beating your chest and claiming items are stolen. It is very easy to claim something is stolen, but not have any proof of these actions. Different curators or heads of the IOH, could have gotten rid of these items, whether right or wrong, and instead of saying something could have happened, it is just as easy for the new person to claim the missing items have been stolen.

 

This is not to say that there have not been bad apples going through the IOH over the years, I am sure there have been some. But unless there is concrete proof, don't make accusations of members owning stolen items.

 

Attacking collectors is not the right way to go about it. Period. Filing a report with the police? "Dates of occurrence" "Oh sometime between 1 Apr 1940 and today". The responsible PD or SO will work diligently on that case.

 

Many of us know how TIOH has worked in the past or continues to do so. In addition to the above scenarios, how many times do you think a LT told some Pfc or Sp4 to "Get rid of this stuff NOW" and the soldier complied, maybe not exactly as the LT intended? Yes, there were/are numbers of military personnel who worked/work there. To blame it all on devious collectors (and apparently to your way of thinking, there is no other kind)? .

 

No police report, taken at the time the crime(s) occurred? You have speculation and insinuation. Argue all you like - but prove your case with concrete evidence. What may have happened 50 - 70 - 80 years ago there has no bearing on how TIOH works today. I'm sure their safeguards are much more stringent. What information does your expert offer by way of TIOH safeguards that long ago? Is there a progression of these safeguards? What steps were taken to prove items were/are the property into perpetuity of TIOH? If someone is trying to apply today's rules and regs to something that wasn't covered quite as closely that long ago, it's not even a moot point. What was the chain of custody for their artifacts so long ago? Just because it was in their files w/o documentation showing a transfer of certain items or how it moved from point A (TIOH) to point BG or from point A to "gee it must have been stolen because it could never happen under today's guidelines" won't fly.

 

I would love to see all the documentation re: the Balfour CIBs. I'm sure there is some correspondence from TIOH (gotta be carbon copies in triplicate) with something along the lines of "this badge is the property of TIOH and shall be returned promptly (or by a certain date)". If similar text was not in the correspondence, I would imagine more than one researcher thought that TIOH was kind in mailing out a badge and thought it was a gift, n'est'ce pas?

 

If you are trying to prove a point, you're certainly going about it the wrong way.

 

However, there are slimeball militaria collectors just as in ANY other collectible hobby. I wouldn't put It past one to try to get an in at TIOH. Just because an insignia was there in 1940 and it isn't there now does not mean it was "stolen" - especially only by a collector. It would sure help to know what the elements of a theft/larceny are in VA. Theft is a specific intent crime here in California, meaning:

 

1) the perpetrator consciously means to do the nefarious deed he sets out to do

 

2) with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of the property

 

So, you or TIOH needs to check with your local PD or SD and find out the elements of theft or larceny or whatever they call it there.

[MFT3]

Nice try. Keep believing those stories and keep speculating. Try doing some serious research and you will find many missing items and paperwork even in archives that only 10 years old. This is going on today as well and ask yourself, "who would want to steal these things and why?" Or you can believe that maybe they were thrown away to make room for newer items.

[vintageproductions]

Wow Mike, wrong person to start a internet posting war about doing serious research with.

[36-tex]

"It wasn't construction workers that stole these items."

 

I would not be so quick at making this sarcastic reply. If there is a chance to make some money, anyone from any career etc will take it. No proof it was a "collector", "researcher", or construction worker. Hell, at times stuff is simply missed placed or "loss in the building." Just recently a museum found a Mummy in their basement. It was no where recorded specifically and somehow was placed in the basement to be forgotten about until someone said, "I wonder what is in that crate?"

[MFT3]

I don't think collectors are devious, but I do know that collectors steal items from government archives and museums. And I do know that collectors buy these items without a concern for where they come from. Am I wrong? Berlin Document Center is the classic example here. Do you think the janitor was dumping SS documents in the trash outback on orders from someone in charge. Why is this so hard for anyone to accept? I 'm sure most collectors today didn't steal these items, but I do know someone that has a valuable item from the IOH that was sold to him with the story that the item was a "salesmans sample", although the item was never approved for use by the IOH. It is easier to believe the story.

[36-tex]

I have no real arguments with some of your suggested possibilities. The problem is how you presented your "opinion". Unless you can prove how the item "left" the IOH, you are just speculating my friend.

[Longhorn92]

Have you considered shutting down Authentic Militaria? Do you really need to take money from obsessive and possessive collectors who believe anything?

 

Don't be an enabler, man.

[MFT3]

Wow Bob I am always starting something with someone and not showing proper deference. I am sure your buddy can speak for himself. Until someone can provide documentation instead of speculation, I will believe my documents and IOH research. The reason collectors believe this stuff is because of their speculation instead of trying to find out the facts. Collectors want answers to questions and instead of being satisfied with "we don't know", they love to speculate and tell stories. If someone could provide a receipt from the IOH or a document that shows the IOH provided one of their items to a private individual, I would gladly reverse my thoughts. But you don't know that any of these reasons for missing items is true. You are speculating. Not good for a historian to do this.

[MFT3]

Have you considered shutting down Authentic Militaria? Do you really need to take money from obsessive and possessive collectors who believe anything?

 

Don't be an enabler, man.

I have not considered closing the website. It is not my job to tell people how to spend their money. I was making an accurate observation about a lot of collectors. It has been my experience that most collectors do not have a good balance between their collecting and real life situations.

[Alec]

We can't say all collectors steal or for sure that some things may have been purged per orders. Many situations and scenarios. I know who walked away with a lot of items from nara, but he passed away many years ago. The MOH is taboo and against the law to own or purchase and we all know people who own them or have owned them. Yes, members of this forum.

 

This should not be that heated of a debate the way it has turned into. We all have situations we are put into and make choices. I was offered an schmeiser 20 years ago for $500 and couldn't wait to get it. It was found in the rafters of grandpas attic of somebody I bumped into at a bar. I called the ATF on Monday morning and explained the situation and asked how to purchase it properly. The agent told me to walk away from it and I did.

 

I had many occasions in my research to walk off with things as I was left alone in the archives of Marine Corps museums for hours. I never did because I respect the purpose of an archive. Much of the headgear I looked at was missing EGAs and I am sure those ended up in pockets of others.

 

Wasn't there a former forum member who was stealing from museums and selling items on ebay if I recall correctly. We as collectors have a duty to preserve history and if we know of people who destroy it by theft than we should police ourselves.

[Teamski]

I have not considered closing the website. It is not my job to tell people how to spend their money. I was making an accurate observation about a lot of collectors. It has been my experience that most collectors do not have a good balance between their collecting and real life situations.

 

 

You, sir are really misguided. The men who stole the sign from Auschwitz were not collectors. The cowards who bought and wore Medals of Honor were not collectors. The idiots who tore pages out of WWI battalion war diaries at the PRC at Kew, London were not collectors. They were simple thieves with no historic interest. The reality is that if it wasn't for us collectors, a ton of historically valuable items would be in landfills today. It is a fact that most governmental offices were extremely poorly run with no accountability for the items they had in possession. As was mentioned above, many items that went missing over the years were simply a case of house-cleaning before some inspection. I know, I have seen insignia tossed to make room. Just because your "source" states that original samples of insignia were stolen some 50-60 years ago does it make it fact. His or her predecessor could of very well had them dumped.

 

I take it you are not a collector. So, please keep the finger in your pocket.

 

-Ski

[tarbridge]

I have not considered closing the website. It is not my job to tell people how to spend their money. I was making an accurate observation about a lot of collectors. It has been my experience that most collectors do not have a good balance between their collecting and real life situations.

 

But alas,Don Quixote never figured out they were only Windmills.You should look at the direction this thread is going...and if you cannot figure it out,get someone to read it back to you as it might have a different feel hearing it instead of writing it...Your opinion of your fellow collectors shows much disdain....I have zero tolerance for someone who steals anything...they're thieves not collectors...

[ka bar]

Hello there MFT3...

 

I would, if I may, just like to clarify a statement you made...

 

In you opening post, you mentioned that, ".... items of the IOH belong to every American, not just the few collectors..."

 

Are you referring to the stolen IOH items or IOH items in general?

 

This is not an argumental reply by the way...

[Forum Manager]

This thread is now being closed.

It has run it's course and is in fact incredibly rude toward militaria collectors.