pconrad02 Posted March 13, 2007 Share #1 Posted March 13, 2007 What to watch for: Examples of fake/reproduction Wings Forum members, I am starting this thread as a reference for collectors of all levels, as a place to post pictures and give tips on reproduction wings, Please post! I will get this one started myself, with a current wing I pulled from eBay. Thanks, Paul Looks like another Meyer restrike...... Surprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share #2 Posted March 13, 2007 OK here are a couple more that I wouldn't buy: Standard Meyer Pattern Bad GEMSCO stamp Ah, the poor T/O wing, it took me years to find a good one, but on eBay there are TONs of them ( and at shows too, lets be fair). In 9 years on eBay I have seen about 4 yes FOUR good T/O wings and they all sold for $400+ Another Meyer Pattern No hallmark, but the sterling stamp under the fiiting is a dead giveaway to me, and of course it has the wrong type of pin, even for an "issue" Meyer piece. I just want to say that these are my opinions on these pieces, I welcome comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted March 13, 2007 One of the things I aways look for is that the hallmark matches the pattern. In the case of the Glider wing for example, that "hallmark" would never be found on that pattern wing. Someone might try to tell you that Gemsco bought the wing from Meyer or some such, and who knows they might be right , but I wouldn't buy the wing! Here's a link to a real one: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/glider...aafglider.shtml Here is what the Flight engineer is SUPPOSED to look like: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/flight...tengineer.shtml There are a lot of good reference books that have examples of what hallmarks are supposed to look like. A great online reference is of course Bob Schwartz 's wings site. He isn't updating it any more but if you click on the pictures, in many cases you will get a picture of the back of the wing. ( http://www.ww2wings.com/main.shtml ). This site is a GREAT reference. I will still, however try to post some here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtbrown Posted March 18, 2007 Share #4 Posted March 18, 2007 I have a pair of Meyers Liaison Pilot wings I bought about 15 years ago. They are the reproductions. Below is a photo showing the back hallmarks. It is my understanding that the repops were marked with "Sterling" and the NSMeyer shield but original Meyer wings also had the stamping "NSMeyer" on them, for a total of three hallmarks. Sound right? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted March 19, 2007 I have a pair of Meyers Liaison Pilot wings I bought about 15 years ago. They are the reproductions. Below is a photo showing the back hallmarks. It is my understanding that the repops were marked with "Sterling" and the NSMeyer shield but original Meyer wings also had the stamping "NSMeyer" on them, for a total of three hallmarks. Sound right? Tom Tom, Here is the hallmark I always look for on WWII Meyer wings: There are others that are good too, but this is the one I really like to find! These happen to be on a 3" Sterling Flight Engineer I have listed on eBay right now Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted May 9, 2007 Pics for reference: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted May 10, 2007 Share #7 Posted May 10, 2007 The Pasquale makers mark is the first sign! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted June 11, 2007 Fake Luxenberg: Here is a recently listed 1st pattern Luxenberg Pilot: The detail is weak, the pin is wrong and the wing is too thin, follow the link to see A REAL ONE : http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/pilot/aafluxpilot.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted June 12, 2007 John, Oh yes that fake LGB T/O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 18, 2007 Share #10 Posted August 18, 2007 Nice thread guys. I hope the novice collectors gain some important insight. The worst thing when you first get started collecting wings is trying to navigate through the goons, con artists, fakers, and other low life types. I have finally started to update my webpage with a fakes section. Its mostly my opinion and experience, but maybe you guys will find it interesting. (http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/Fakes_Blog/Fakes_Blog.html). The first page deals with general questions about fakes, the second shows some examples. Mostly, the wings are from images I have picked up here and there. Visit the rest of my site. BTW, nothing is for sale. Just an ego website for my hobby. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted June 22, 2008 Share #11 Posted June 22, 2008 Currently being offered on ebay. It's construction is, shall we say; "unique": http://cgi.ebay.com/US-World-War-I-Senior-...emZ160253521147 Bonus for the first person who recognizes what this was originally made from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted June 22, 2008 Share #12 Posted June 22, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted June 22, 2008 Share #13 Posted June 22, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremiahcable Posted June 22, 2008 Share #14 Posted June 22, 2008 Made from a naval officer's hat emblem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted June 28, 2008 Share #15 Posted June 28, 2008 Thats about the truth of it, expect multiple variations of the "cut the wings offen somthin', cover it with black felt, and sell it to the rubes" ebay auctions. The big money that some of the real wings are getting on some of the auctions right now seem to be pushing the goons and goobers into new fits of faking and fraud. Sad thing. Their are a family of WWI pilot, observer, and balloon wings that I used to see at the old great western gun show. I still see them showing up here and there, out of old collections and from the same old group of questionable dealers at the militaria shows. They were typically hand cut silver strips (or some sort of silver like metal), hand chased with a chisel, and typically backed with a heavy black or dark blue wool. THey werent intended to fool anyone but the novice collector and were usually priced at a fraction of the cost of a real wing. This particular wing seems to be out of that general pattern of fantasy wing makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted July 8, 2008 This piece of junk sold for over $700...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none Posted July 16, 2008 Share #17 Posted July 16, 2008 The center shield is from a Meyer and Wenthe WWI wing which is one of the more reproduced wings around. You can tell by the "US" in the shield. That mis-shape US is from their wing. I have enclosed a picture of the Meyer & Wenthe wing, it's one of my reproductions. How can you tell a real M&W, look at the back and it the hallmark is in a circle of the words Meyer & Wenthe and also says Chicago its real, if only sterling is it a reproduction. The cloth is incorrect for the era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted July 31, 2008 Share #18 Posted July 31, 2008 Howdy - I acquired this Paris maker-marked WW I Balloon pilot wing at the SoS in Feb. in a trade with an old aviation buddy. Finally got around to scanning pics. It's marked '935' and measures 3 and 5/16th inches tip-to-tip. Anybody seen one like this before or know anything about the maker, "LEBREVE-PARIS"? All comments welcome! Thanks Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted July 31, 2008 Share #19 Posted July 31, 2008 Hello Bobgee, Sadly, I dont think you old aviation buddy did you any favors. This is (IMHO) one of those fake style WWI wings that are relatively common. I used to see one or two dealers at the old great western show (and sometimes at other shows) with a whole load of these type of wings. You see them in a variety of forms, but usually they are made by hand cutting a sheet of metal (sometimes silver, sometimes not) with a saw into the form, then the different elements soldered together. For pilot/observer type wings, they are fequently put on a cloth backing, with the balloon wings lacking that detail. The goldola is made of silver wire like yours, over a round balloon. Some of the wings have the hallmarks (sometimes stamped sometimes on seperate plaque). In fact, I have the EXACT brother to your wing but with a star on the top. One of the first and biggest mistakes I made in collecting was buying my balloon wing. Somewhere I have photos and I will post them later. In general, I think almost all serious WWI wing collectors will wave you off of these wings. Somewhere I recall a discussion on these types of wings, but my searches are all coming up empty. Sorry Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted July 31, 2008 Share #20 Posted July 31, 2008 Patrick - thanks for your comments. My buddy was set up next to me and we were speculating over the origins of this piece, that he had acquired at auction. I had something that I didn't have much in that he liked and we swapped. I won't lose much sleep over being the owner of this fellow. Any era jeweler-made or non-reg theatre made stuff always has the the big ole' "Caveat Emptor" attached to it. Who knows? It might be real???? Best....Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted July 31, 2008 Share #21 Posted July 31, 2008 Hi I admire that, as I like to tell people, you should collect for yourself not for other people. If you like it and you know the pitfalls associated with it, then who can really find fault? Still, you should really take this one with a BIG grain of salt. ...IMHO. Best Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted July 31, 2008 Share #22 Posted July 31, 2008 WW1 balloon pilot wings are like WW2 painted M1 helmets - about 99.9% of those offered for sale are bogus. Unless you personally pull either one out of an attic yourself, don't buy them. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 1, 2008 Share #23 Posted August 1, 2008 I think Kurt is correct, not alot of WWI balloon pilot insignia out there, and the vast majority of those items are pretty suspect. Still, the basics of wing collecting should be applied if you want to avoid the crud. You should get Campbell's and Morris' book on WWI wings as they have a few examples of good balloon pilot wings. Another good example or two are shown in the second Pinks and Greens, Silver Wings book. Look for die stamped wings, avoid anything cast. Vintage Jeweler made wings usually have a much higher level of craftsmanship and workmanship than are apparent in the repops. (ie avoid anything that looks like it could have been made with a hack saw, a couple of files and chisels, and some electrical solder). Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 20, 2008 Share #24 Posted August 20, 2008 Here is another one along the same lines as the one above. In fact, it comes from the same guy. Classic fake wing that is going to screw someone over royally. The wings and shield are hand cut from a plate of "sliver" then chased with a file and chisel. The individual bits are then put on a brass backing and sewn with felt. I cant believe people fall for these wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 26, 2008 Share #25 Posted August 26, 2008 Here is the auction for this wing. http://cgi.ebay.com/US-World-War-I-Fightin...1QQcmdZViewItem wonder what it will eventually sell for? This POS sold for over 1200$! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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