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Examples of Fake Fantasy & Reproduction Wings

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What to watch for: Examples of fake/reproduction Wings

 

Forum members, I am starting this thread as a reference for collectors of all levels, as a place to post pictures and give tips on reproduction wings, Please post!

 

I will get this one started myself, with a current wing I pulled from eBay.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

post-182-1173794086.jpg

 

Looks like another Meyer restrike......

 

post-182-1173794129.jpg

 

Surprise!

 

post-182-1173794154.jpg


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
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I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


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OK here are a couple more that I wouldn't buy:

 

post-182-1173799051.jpg

Standard Meyer Pattern

 

post-182-1173799082.jpg

Bad GEMSCO stamp

 

Ah, the poor T/O wing, it took me years to find a good one, but on eBay there are TONs of them ( and at shows too, lets be fair). In 9 years on eBay I have seen about 4 yes FOUR good T/O wings and they all sold for $400+

 

post-182-1173799174.jpg

Another Meyer Pattern

 

post-182-1173799204.jpg

No hallmark, but the sterling stamp under the fiiting is a dead giveaway to me, and of course it has the wrong type of pin, even for an "issue" Meyer piece.

 

I just want to say that these are my opinions on these pieces, I welcome comments!


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
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I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


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One of the things I aways look for is that the hallmark matches the pattern. In the case of the Glider wing for example, that "hallmark" would never be found on that pattern wing. Someone might try to tell you that Gemsco bought the wing from Meyer or some such, and who knows they might be right , but I wouldn't buy the wing!

Here's a link to a real one:

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/glider...aafglider.shtml

 

Here is what the Flight engineer is SUPPOSED to look like:

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/flight...tengineer.shtml

 

There are a lot of good reference books that have examples of what hallmarks are supposed to look like. A great online reference is of course Bob Schwartz 's wings site. He isn't updating it any more but if you click on the pictures, in many cases you will get a picture of the back of the wing. ( http://www.ww2wings.com/main.shtml ). This site is a GREAT reference. I will still, however try to post some here!


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
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donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


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I have a pair of Meyers Liaison Pilot wings I bought about 15 years ago. They are the reproductions. Below is a photo showing the back hallmarks. It is my understanding that the repops were marked with "Sterling" and the NSMeyer shield but original Meyer wings also had the stamping "NSMeyer" on them, for a total of three hallmarks.

 

Sound right?

 

Tom

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Learn to ride hard, shoot straight, dance well and so live that you can, if necessary, look any man in the eye and tell him to go to Hell! US Cavalry Manual, 1923

WWII APS

 

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**PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER HAS SADLY PASSED AWAY**

 

 

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I have a pair of Meyers Liaison Pilot wings I bought about 15 years ago. They are the reproductions. Below is a photo showing the back hallmarks. It is my understanding that the repops were marked with "Sterling" and the NSMeyer shield but original Meyer wings also had the stamping "NSMeyer" on them, for a total of three hallmarks.

 

Sound right?

 

Tom

Tom,

 

Here is the hallmark I always look for on WWII Meyer wings:

post-182-1174312492.jpg

There are others that are good too, but this is the one I really like to find!

These happen to be on a 3" Sterling Flight Engineer I have listed on eBay right now

 

Paul


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
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donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


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Here is a wing up for questions - the first thing that jumps out is the lack of detailing inside the shield. All other Balfour Service Pilots I have seen have the horizontal line patter in the shield. (example - see link)

 

 

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/servic...ilotsmall.shtml

 

 

 

What do you all think? SOrry no photos of the reverse...

 

 

 

servicepilotsm9.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

servicepilot2ep1.jpg


Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

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Pics for reference:

 

post-182-1178739915.jpg

post-182-1178739940.jpg


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
donation2007.gifdonation2008.gif
donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gif
donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


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The Pasquale makers mark is the first sign!


Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

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Fake Luxenberg:

 

Here is a recently listed 1st pattern Luxenberg Pilot:

post-182-1181572411.jpg

post-182-1181572659.jpg

post-182-1181572672.jpg

 

The detail is weak, the pin is wrong and the wing is too thin, follow the link to see A REAL ONE : http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/pilot/aafluxpilot.shtml


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
donation2007.gifdonation2008.gif
donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gif
donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


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John,

 

Oh yes that fake LGB T/O

 

post-182-1181653132.jpg

post-182-1181653143.jpg

 

Actually that's not fake, it's the LARGE PRINT variation for older collectors hapy0004.gif


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
donation2007.gifdonation2008.gif
donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gif
donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


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Nice thread guys. I hope the novice collectors gain some important insight. The worst thing when you first get started collecting wings is trying to navigate through the goons, con artists, fakers, and other low life types.

 

I have finally started to update my webpage with a fakes section. Its mostly my opinion and experience, but maybe you guys will find it interesting. (http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/05.html). The first page deals with general questions about fakes, the second shows some examples.

 

Mostly, the wings are from images I have picked up here and there.

 

Visit the rest of my site. BTW, nothing is for sale. Just an ego website for my hobby.

 

Patrick

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Made from a naval officer's hat emblem?


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Actively seeking WW1 4th and 5th Brigade USMC helmets and also a named WW2 Raider green blouse.
I'd rather be a sparrow than a snail, if I could I surely would....

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This would have been for a "Military Aviator", during the WW1 era. A Junior Military Aviator would have worn the wings without the star. The Senior Pilot see know today, didn't come out til about 1937 by adding a star above the center shield.

Neat looking wings tho! thumbsup.gif


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Thats about the truth of it, expect multiple variations of the "cut the wings offen somthin', cover it with black felt, and sell it to the rubes" ebay auctions. The big money that some of the real wings are getting on some of the auctions right now seem to be pushing the goons and goobers into new fits of faking and fraud. Sad thing.

 

Their are a family of WWI pilot, observer, and balloon wings that I used to see at the old great western gun show. I still see them showing up here and there, out of old collections and from the same old group of questionable dealers at the militaria shows. They were typically hand cut silver strips (or some sort of silver like metal), hand chased with a chisel, and typically backed with a heavy black or dark blue wool. THey werent intended to fool anyone but the novice collector and were usually priced at a fraction of the cost of a real wing. This particular wing seems to be out of that general pattern of fantasy wing makers.

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post-594-1214158650.jpg

 

 

This piece of junk sold for over $700......


Paul Conrad
Still looking for quality wings!

www.conradwings.com
donation2007.gifdonation2008.gif
donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gif
donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

I am bored prefixing everything I say with "I think" or "in my opinion".
Everything I say is my opinion; the only thing of which I am certain is that there is very little of which one can be certain.

 


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The center shield is from a Meyer and Wenthe WWI wing which is one of the more reproduced wings around. You can tell by the "US" in the shield. That mis-shape US is from their wing. I have enclosed a picture of the Meyer & Wenthe wing, it's one of my reproductions. How can you tell a real M&W, look at the back and it the hallmark is in a circle of the words Meyer & Wenthe and also says Chicago its real, if only sterling is it a reproduction.

 

The cloth is incorrect for the era.

post-1465-1216209367.jpg

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Here is another one along the same lines as the one above. In fact, it comes from the same guy. Classic fake wing that is going to screw someone over royally.

 

The wings and shield are hand cut from a plate of "sliver" then chased with a file and chisel. The individual bits are then put on a brass backing and sewn with felt. I cant believe people fall for these wings.

post-1519-1219201791.jpg

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Wing in post #21

 

Patrick, does this look like it could be from the same person or outfit that created the wing with the brown OD backing you and I discussed? I see some similarities in the wing cuts and especially in that zig zag pattern in the shield... think.gif

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Wing in post #21

 

Patrick, does this look like it could be from the same person or outfit that created the wing with the brown OD backing you and I discussed? I see some similarities in the wing cuts and especially in that zig zag pattern in the shield... think.gif

 

Steve, yes, I think these are exactly the same "type" of fake that we were talking about.

 

There are a family of fake WWI wings that show up. They almost always have a series of similarities that once you look at a few, you will get the idea of what I am talking about.

 

They typically use a sheet of metal that has been hand cut with a hack saw, frequently rather crudely. The tips of the feathers are usually very sharp and have been cut so that the edge of the wing looks like the blades of a saw. The details of the feathers are, more often than not, hand chased into the metal with a chisel and usually use a variety of "V" shapes and slashes to form the feathering. The shield (or "O" or balloon) in the center is also hand worked and has rather crude and poor detail. For example, in the above wing, the stars are not centered or spaced evenly.

 

Sometimes the wings are put on a brass backing, sometimes not. When on a backing, it is usually wrapped with a felt material, often times artificially aged. The pin, hinge and catch are usually hand made and look nothing like the hardware found on real WWI wings.

 

The feeling seems to be that these rather crude, handmade pieces are "jeweler made" as if a real jeweler wouldnt have access to sterling silver, jewelers saws, awls, files, rasps, chisels and skill. Instead, they look like they were made by some guy with a vise, a hack saw, a chisels, and a butane torch.

 

here are a couple more of this general pattern: A ballon wing that was recently discussed (please forgive me if I err in reposting the images here).

post-1519-1219855525.jpg

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Here is yet another of that same family of fakes. At least this one is being sold on ebay as a fake. Actually, the workmanship on this one is a bit better than the normal run of the mill wings. But still, a fake.

post-1519-1220738367.jpg

post-1519-1220738394.jpg

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