aerialbridge Posted August 26, 2014 Share #1 Posted August 26, 2014 Not a Purple Heart collector, but the story behind this one had me as one of the also rans in this auction that ended yesterday (8/24/14). Free shipping, even, for whoever plucked this one from the Bay. The seller in the past week had up a separate lot with the burial flag and I believe some other paper and photo. That lot was pulled prior to the end of this auction. Perhaps the seller was going to give the high bidder of this lot an option on that as well. Which would be the class thing to do. Eternal peace on patrol, EM1c Lloyd R. Balch and your shipmates. A particularly sad chapter of WW2 USN submarine history. http://www.subsowespac.org/news/death-by-friendly-fire.shtml "Original Navy Purple Heart lot-Medal has been lost to time-Original hard cased box ( with submarine badge inside) with original cardboard shipping box- original letter issued to widow -purple heart certificate with original mailing envelope-original Truman signed certificate in original mailing tube-good+ condition on all pieces-Rare Lot- NR." http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-WW11-Navy-Purple-Heart-Lot-2-Certificates-1-Truman-Signed-Boxes-No-Medal-/221525832221?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=F8Oe2jkWxZrIMxM01Xlic05j1D0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_152wt_1153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted August 26, 2014 and.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanemono Posted August 26, 2014 Share #3 Posted August 26, 2014 Thank you for posting that great history. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahlguy Posted August 27, 2014 Share #4 Posted August 27, 2014 Saw This On Ebay, Unfortunately For Me I was Outbid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh B. Posted August 28, 2014 Share #5 Posted August 28, 2014 I helped run it up, but didn't get it. And the PH wasn't "lost", hence the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted August 28, 2014 Share #6 Posted August 28, 2014 I didn't win it, but I know who did. The Purple Heart wasn't included. He had to pay extra to get it. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted August 28, 2014 I didn't win it, but I know who did. The Purple Heart wasn't included. He had to pay extra to get it. Kurt Unless the man upped his price, what he quoted weren't much more at all for the suspension brooch medal. If your acquaintance got the burial flag and other items, one nice group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh B. Posted August 28, 2014 Share #8 Posted August 28, 2014 Yes Kurt there was and additional fee for the medal but it was nominal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted August 28, 2014 Share #9 Posted August 28, 2014 It was not $50 as he originally stated. The price went up. I can guarantee you he paid substantially more than the final auction value. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mes Posted August 28, 2014 Share #10 Posted August 28, 2014 I hope whoever got this fine group is a member here and will show the entire group. Rip all sailors of the USS Seawolf. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh B. Posted August 29, 2014 Share #11 Posted August 29, 2014 That's a bummer. The promise of the medal, at an agreed upon price plus the auction total is how I assessed the estimate of what I was willing to spend (plus giving a decent run at the other lot). Of course, now sellers on ebay will think empty purple heart boxes with accolades are worth close to a grand... It was not $50 as he originally stated. The price went up. I can guarantee you he paid substantially more than the final auction value.Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grovb Posted August 31, 2014 Share #12 Posted August 31, 2014 so much for trusting a persons words. It was not $50 as he originally stated. The price went up. I can guarantee you he paid substantially more than the final auction value.Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahlguy Posted September 7, 2014 Share #13 Posted September 7, 2014 I agree about trusting the seller, I too had a conversation with him outside of ebay, I was interested in the group because the sailor was from Ohio. At that time the seller also told me that the medal would go with the sale for an additional $50 I guess I'm glad I was outbid now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share #14 Posted September 7, 2014 In fairness to this seller that I don't know and never dealt with before, the final price for the whole shabang remains private information. There is no statement from either the buyer or the seller of the final price. There is not even a hearsay statement of how much was paid. There is a third party statement that it was "substantially more". None of the Purple Heart experts (and I mean that sincerely, not with any sarcasm) have weighed in on what their opinions would be of the fair market value of this group. I've never bought a Purple Heart before-- much less an attributed, officially engraved, cased one, in fine condition (I was emailed a picture by the seller), with the engraved certificate, with a Presidential signed (autopen?) accoladone, a posthumous combat submarine pin citation, and pin, and the coverletter for the medal and certificate. But wait, there's more. To a submarine KIA on what I understand was the only sub that was sunk by "friendly fire" in WW2. Kinda historic. Now while I don't know what that group's fair market value is, I do know from other auctions, postings here and in the "for sale" section, that submarine-related medals or groups invariably go for a premium. So I have to believe that a KIA submarine PH group, and one to a man on the only sub sunk by friendly fire, would go for "substantially more" than $995. Don't uncased, un-accolade, non submarine solitary engraved KIA Purple Heart medals routinely sell here for $1500 and up- way up? Did the seller break his, was it a promise, assurance-- I don't know, to sell the Purple Heart medal for an extra $50 to the high bidder? I had it in writing, and it was a less than what I'd call a "promise". But it seems he reneged, regardless. Did the buyer get a "bad deal" or was he "ripped off"? Based on the information presently known, anyone believe that with reasonable certainty? With all due respect, where there is no information as to the amount paid and the fair market value, it’s kinda hard to draw that conclusion. Based on what's known, I'm not ready to say, "Man, I'm glad I wasn't the high bidder." Or at least, equally likely to say, "I shoulda bid more". I’m guessing somebody got a good deal, maybe even a really good deal, but worst case, paid no more than FMV for this very nice, historic group. If one of the Purple Heart advanced collectors or dealers cared to weigh in with their analysis of what a group like this was worth, that would be useful information for those of us who are not, without intruding on the privacy of the unknown buyer and the unknown purchase price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted September 7, 2014 Share #15 Posted September 7, 2014 A WWII submarine Purple Heart by itself with no paperwork usually sell for 1200-2000. More if from a famous boat. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted September 7, 2014 Kurt, thanks for your reply. If I understand correctly, you know the buyer, and if being more specific than that is somewhere you don't want to go, I completely understand and I don't mean to put you on the spot. I would think that this would be considered a famous boat given how it was lost and there are a lot of "extras" beyond just a medal. There was also the burial flag group in the separate auction that was pulled which presumably and hopefully stayed with the rest of the group. I'm sure I'm not the only one that would appreciate the educational value of knowing the fair market value of this historic medal and papers group if any of the experts would care to assess it for this particular group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted September 7, 2014 Share #17 Posted September 7, 2014 In my experience a good representation of original paperwork usually adds at least 50% more to a group than just the value of the medal. It all depends on what paperwork is there. To me a famous boat is one like the Wahoo or Tang which even those not familiar with military history recognize. Both a Wahoo and Tang Purple Heart have sold between members of this forum recently, Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted September 7, 2014 Share #18 Posted September 7, 2014 In my opinion, Purple Hearts to men killed by friendly fire or by accident away from the battle zone are less desirable than ones to enemy action. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted September 7, 2014 Thank you, gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstop61 Posted September 8, 2014 Share #20 Posted September 8, 2014 What a great group! Personally I would be honored to have this grouping in my collection. Little background-The Seawolf SS-197 started the war with problems faced by all the other submarines-bad Mark 14 torpedoes. Seawolf''s Captain Freddie Warder frustrated by the torpedo problem loaded both Mark 14's and Mark 10's for his seventh patrol. Warder found his target-an anchored 8,000 ton transport. Warder fired four controlled bow shots (one at a time) setting the torpedoes at different depths-all without success. Warder withdrew to reload the tubes with the older Mark 10's. Warder then made his approach (while dodging Japanese shell fire) fired one bow shot (a hit) and swung around and fired a stern shot (also a MK 10) and scored another hit. Need I digress..... The Seawolf finished her career with getting screwed by JANAC showing 18-vessels sunk at 71,609 tons. The Alden-McDonald scoring gave the Seawolf 27-vessels sunk with 6-damaged, 3-probable, and 4-possible at a whopping 97,035 tons sunk and 32,590 tons damaged--big difference. Sorry for the rant, but despite her early demise, the Seawolf finished the war at #14 (tonnage sunk)and with the torpedo problem corrected, and that the last few patrols were supply missions, the Seawolf might've climbed much higher on the list. Thanks for posting this great group and I'm sure the new caretaker will honor the 83-crewmen along with the 17-Army personnel tragically killed. May they all Rest in Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share #21 Posted September 11, 2014 fstop, thanks for that postscript on the effectiveness of Seawolf before her early demise. I agree with you about the group and wherever it is, may it stay together in tribute to its recipient and his sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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