jagjetta Posted July 25, 2014 Share #1 Posted July 25, 2014 Even after consulting Alexander Barnes' fine book, In a Strange Land: The American Occupation of Germany 1918-1923, I haven't been able to pin down the significance of the "5" on these soldiers' 3rd Army patches. A guess might be 5th Infantry Regiment that served in Germany until 1922, but that is just a guess. Does anyone know the significance of the "5" on these patches? Thanks, JAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted July 26, 2014 Share #2 Posted July 26, 2014 That's a tough one. It could be 5th Corps, 5th Division, 5th MP Company, Base Hospital No. 5, Veterinary Hospital No. 5, 5th Regiment (fill in the blank) Pioneer Infantry, Engineers, etc. etc. It does look similar in style to these other 3rd Army insignia with miniature divisional insignia inset between the legs of the letter 'A'. On the left the 3rd Army SSI has a mini 3rd Division emblem. Next to that is your mystery '5' emblem and a lousy image of a mini1st Division insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted July 26, 2014 Share #3 Posted July 26, 2014 My theory on this type of 3rd Army insignia is that they were the final style used by the Army of Occupation. I have no way of proving this, but I believe that the progression of shoulder insignia worn by members of the 3rd Army was as follows: From left to right and in chronological order: 1. division insignia only; 2. then a combination of division and 3rd Army insignia; 3. then only the division insignia, inset with a small 3rd Army insignia; 4. and last only a 3rd Army insignia, inset with a small division insignia. By the way, that's quite an interesting photo. I don't know why, but something about the cocky bearing of the two guys pictured, makes me think MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zotig111 Posted July 27, 2014 Share #4 Posted July 27, 2014 It does resemble the WWII version of the 5th Army patch but I don't think that one came about until the early 40's. I don't think it is a corps or divisional insignia since the corps would be represented as a "V" and like the 1st division example above, the fifth division would be a diamond patch. Maybe a early patch maker interpretation of the 5th army 2nd design patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted July 27, 2014 Share #5 Posted July 27, 2014 That's a tough one. It could be 5th Corps, 5th Division, 5th MP Company, Base Hospital No. 5, Veterinary Hospital No. 5, 5th Regiment (fill in the blank) Pioneer Infantry, Engineers, etc. etc. It does look similar in style to these other 3rd Army insignia with miniature divisional insignia inset between the legs of the letter 'A'. On the left the 3rd Army SSI has a mini 3rd Division emblem. Next to that is your mystery '5' emblem and a lousy image of a mini1st Division insignia. Can you please get a closeup of the collar disks? Might offer a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagjetta Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted July 27, 2014 Can you please get a closeup of the collar disks? Might offer a clue. If you can tell me how to get the two guys to take off their overcoats, I will see if they have collar discs on their tunics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted July 27, 2014 Share #7 Posted July 27, 2014 If you can tell me how to get the two guys to take off their overcoats, I will see if they have collar discs on their tunics. This was in reference to WW 1 nerd's post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagjetta Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted July 28, 2014 This was in reference to WW 1 nerd's post.... Sorry dave...I kinda figure as such but I was wearing my smart a$& cap! To be honest, there were other images of the two guys sold at the same time I got the image of them in overcoats. The other images showed them in tunics. It's always a bummer when documents like this are split up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAW Posted July 28, 2014 Share #9 Posted July 28, 2014 I think your over-thinking this one.....and you had it right in the initial post. My bet is 5th U.S. Infantry, which was in occupation for an extended time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KySoldier Posted July 28, 2014 Share #10 Posted July 28, 2014 Great photos !!!! Do you have more ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted July 28, 2014 Share #11 Posted July 28, 2014 tredhed The collar discs worn by the two 3rd Division/3rd Army soldiers in post No. 2. They both have unnumbered MG discs with the MG above the crossed rifles. Both discs do not have a company letter. The only collar disc in post No.3 that can be made out is worn by the man with the 4th Division insignia. He is wearing the crossed rifles of the infantry without a regimental number or company letter. In post No.3 of the 4 variations of the 3rd Army insignia -- by the way, in my hast to post, I screwed up the order of the photos! The 2nd and 3rd photos are in the wrong order. They should be NO.1: 1st Division patch only; No.2: 1st Div. over 3rd Army (two patches); No. 3: 4th Div. with 3rd Army inset; No. 4: 3rd Army with 1st Div. inset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted July 28, 2014 Share #12 Posted July 28, 2014 tredhed The collar discs worn by the two 3rd Division/3rd Army soldiers in post No. 2. They both have unnumbered MG discs with the MG above the crossed rifles. Both discs do not have a company letter. The only collar disc in post No.3 that can be made out is worn by the man with the 4th Division insignia. He is wearing the crossed rifles of the infantry without a regimental number or company letter. In post No.3 of the 4 variations of the 3rd Army insignia -- by the way, in my hast to post, I screwed up the order of the photos! The 2nd and 3rd photos are in the wrong order. They should be NO.1: 1st Division patch only; No.2: 1st Div. over 3rd Army (two patches); No. 3: 4th Div. with 3rd Army inset; No. 4: 3rd Army with 1st Div. inset Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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