Wool Service Coat, Spec. 1285. Cpl. 121st Aero Sqdn.

[verdun2001]

Hi everyone,

 

My name is Tom.

First of all thanks for having me on this forum. It looks really good!!

 

I am a Dutch collector interested in the First World War. My specialities are the Battle of Verdun, aviation and a Dutch defence line called the Stelling van Amsterdam (defence line of Amsterdam).

 

Last week I bought this aviation uniforme consisting of a jacket and trousers. The first several photos show the jacket and its insignia. I could use some help on identification of all the insignia. My first question is if this uniforme is of the active service and what the insignia mean? My second question is if this uniforme really dates from the First World War?

The last photo is from the label in the trousers. Is this a wellknown maker?

In general I could use alle the information I can get on this uniforme. I am pretty happy that I could buy this uniforme in the Netherlands;-)

 

[jeff arthur]

Hello Tom,Welcome to our Forum ! I defer expertise to others regarding WW1 uniforms,but some years ago I had a few,from the pictures everything looks original,did the seller have a name ? The red chevron, usually worn mid-sleeve (left) denoted Honorable Discharge,that it is down on the left cuff with the overseas chevrons makes me wonder...If you have a black light,check the thread used to sew the patches on...Best Regards, Jeff

[mattsmilitary]

Great uniform! This is one type of uniform I would love to add to my collection some day!

[verdun2001]

Thank you Matt and Jeff,

 

I saw that too that the honorable discharge stripe is lower than it usually is. What I also would like to ask is why there is a star above the overseas stripe and why there is a regular and blue overseas stripe above eachother?

And am interested especially in the unit and the history concerning the Great War.

[Dr_rambow]

Take a look here

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/202900-world-war-i-war-service-chevrons/?hl=chevrons

[KurtA]

The Air Service branch disk is a nice variation with stylized wings.

[Allan H.]

The 121st Aero Squadron was assigned to Love Field near Dallas, Texas. They were a training squadron. The corporal whose tunic this once belonged to would have been ground crew, a clerk, or maybe even an instructor.

 

The 121st Aero Squadron never went overseas and was inactivated after the armistice.

 

Allan

[MAW]

The blue service chevron is for less than 6 months overseas.

 

The gold service chevron is for 6 months overseas. By the rules, soldiers weren't supposed to wear combinations of these....but that isn't to say that it couldn't happen.

 

The star would be an unofficial insignia, signifying a voluntary enlistment (as opposed to being drafted).

[Tennessee]

The lower Honorable Discharge stripe is interesting- another testimony that the Doughboys took some license in where they placed them- especially since they were "on the way out!" I have a number of groups with the stripe on upside down. In fact Sgt. York's uniform blouse on display at the Tennessee State Museum has such an upside down HD stripe!

[verdun2001]

Thank you all for the great information. I thought already that it was a great uniforme...with this info even more. The link on chevrons is really good.

 

As I understand it correctly: His unit never went overseas although he has an overseas stripe. Could it be that he went overseas anyway because of his experience?

[world war I nerd]

Hi Tom,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

The fact that your service coat bears the insignia of the 121st Aero Squadron in conjunction with both a light blue and gold service chevron, which collectively show that he served overseas in the Theater of Operations somewhere between seven and eleven months is a bit of a mystery. Here's a couple of possibilities:

 

1. Any Army organization waiting to ship out to France from a Port of Embarkation had to have a full compliment of men before embarkation officials would permit the ship to sail. Almost every Division, Regiment and Brigade waiting at an embarkation camp was short handed due to a number of reasons, which might include: experienced NCOs being transferred to another unit to help them train; men being sick or injured and in the hospital; some men went absent without leave (AWOL) in an attempt to visit family members that lived nearby; a few had committed crimes and were awaiting a court marshal, and some were classified as suitable only for "home service" for a variety of reasons, including having a German surname. To fill the gap, men still in training were rounded up and told to report to any given unit at the appropriate embarkation camp. An aviation unit waiting to go overseas may have been under strength and X number of recruits from Love Field were immediately dispatched so the troop ship could sail.

 

Why this soldier chose to wear the insignia of his former unit instead of the one he served with is a mystery. It could be that:

 

1. He was proud of his service with the 121st Aero Squadron.

2. That his unit didn't have a unit insignia of its own so he wore the shoulder patch of his former unit.

3. That he served with a Quartermaster or other less glamorous unit and he felt wearing the insignia of the aviation unit he had served with was more prestigious.

4. It could be that he never obtained an insignia from the unit he served with, and upon returning home he discovered the unused insignia of the 121st in his barracks bag and sewed that onto his uniform instead.

5. It was sewn onto the service coat by an unscrupulous militaria dealer in an attempt to increase the coat's value.

 

In respect to the curious configuration of the gold and light blue war service chevrons and the red discharge stripe, these look to be genuine to the coat, but it's difficult to tell just from the poor quality photo that was posted. Despite the fact that wearing a combination of gold, light blue and silver service chevrons was strictly against regulations, there is enough proof to show that that particular regulation was often ignored, especially after the men had been discharged.

 

The "first over" or "early enlistment" star is also an unusual insignia, as these do not frequently show up. Because the coat would need a minimum of two gold service chevrons to qualify for the first over star, we have to assume that it represents the fact that the coat's original owner enlisted or volunteered for the Army, as opposed to being drafted. Is it original to the coat, maybe ... maybe not.

 

This is the first time that I've ever seen the red discharge chevron placed on the forearm of an Army service coat. Army regulations claimed that the discharge chevron was to be situated point up, in the center of the left sleeve, midway between the elbow and the shoulder. However, the discharge chevron was commonly worn point up, on the forearm, just above the service chevrons by U.S. Marine Corps personnel.

 

Most discharge chevrons were sewn onto the service coat after a soldier had been discharged from service, if they were sewn on at all. Because the discharged soldier was no longer a serving member of America's armed forces, no officer or NCO could make him change the location of the discharge or service chevrons, even if they were in the wrong position or displayed the wrong combination of colors, i.e. gold and light blue. Surviving examples show that the location of discharge chevrons on Army coats vary between being high up near the shoulder and all the way down to the elbow. In a number of instances, the chevrons were sewn on un-centered, crooked and even on upside down. I've even seen a pair of discharge stripes sewn onto the right hand sleeve as if they were a corporal's chevron! Why this particular soldier placed his discharge chevron on the forearm of the sleeve, similar to a Marine is another mystery. Perhaps he was posted on or near a USMC airfield ... or perhaps he saw how the Marines wore their discharge chevrons and thought that it looked better in that location. There's just no way for us to know.

 

Here's a photo of U.S. Marines wearing their discharge chevrons on to of or just above their service chevrons.

 

 

[world war I nerd]

Here's the discharge/corporal chevron, a discharge stripe sewn on upside down, and an extreme example of a poorly situated discharge stripe!

[verdun2001]

Thank you world war I nerd for the information. This topic just gave me all the information possible on this uniform. I have to say a lot of mysteries are surrounding this uniform which makes it even more interesting as I already posted before;-)

[mikes militaria]

I picked up a 483rd Aero Sqdrn (Construction) haversack a while back. I had a friend that worked at the FT. Meyer museum. He gave me info that stated the 483rd started as the 71st AS formed at Kelly Field in Texas. It moved to Camp Morrison VA. It was reorganized as the 483rd AS then shipped to France from Newport News VA. I don't have the 121st AS info but a lot of lower numbered Aero Squadrons were reorganized to higher AS numbers before shipping off to France. I have a gap in my info from the 83rd AS (Construction) changed to the 495th. then the 129th was changed to the 548th (Supply). It was copied from the book "Order of Battle of the United States Land Forces in the World War. Zone of the Interior Directory of Troops. Volume 3, Part 3. Center of Military History, US Army Washington DC 1988." This might explain how your guy got overseas. The 121st may have been the original AS before being reorganized to a higher # AS shipped overseas. The 548th (129th) was in France from March 1918 to May 1919. The time served in France Varies from each individual AS. Not having the 121st specific info, I can only speculate. This may help explain the 2 different overseas stripes.

[GIl Sanow]

I am wondering if what appears to be a gold overseas chevron is in fact silver. Silver was worn for 6 months stateside service. Sometimes silver tarnished and looked mor like gold. If that is the case, perhaps this fellow served 6 months starteside and less than 6 overseas.

 

Either way, it is an interesting example. Certainly the service chevrons were made that way as they are sewn to a separate patch. I once had a set wit a silver and two golds. Unauthorized, but my friend Bill Emerson liked it well enough to buy nt from me!

 

G

[mikes militaria]

I found it! 121st Aero squadron (I) organized at Kelly Field Texas. August 1917. I'm confused by this, but subheading a) 121st AS organized Sept 1917 at "do" Under the original 121st in the same category as Kelly Field. I'm assuming this was at Kelly Field as well. Not sure what " do" means. It was stationed in Garden City NY In Jan 1918. Sub Heading b)The 640th AS was organized in Feb 1918 as part of the AEF. It's overseas dates are Jan 1918 through April 1919. Even though it was organized in Feb 1918

The 121st AS (I) Port of embarkation was Hoboken Jan 1918. Re organized as the 640th as part of the AEF in Feb 1918. Stayed in France until 4-19. was demobilized at Mitchell field NY 4-19. This was a supply squadron. (SOS Troop) Under the 640th AS it says see the 121st AS.......... NOW.......

 

121st AS (II) Organized at Kelly Field 4-18 and immediately stationed at Love Field, Texas 4-18. Squadron "B" of the 121st(II) was organized at Love Field TEX in 7-18

Demobilized in 11-18. This entity of the 121st AS never made it overseas.

 

Had this guy been part of the original organized 121st in Aug 1917, he could have had 6mos US svc Silver and then the blue and gold overseas stripes. Probably was part of the SEPT 1917 organized 121st and only 5mos US svc or less depending on enlistment. Thus explaining blue and gold SVC stripes. But who knows about that one.