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Maroon Special Forces Beret?


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I can speak a little to the issue of the maroon vs. green berets.

 

I served in the 5/19th SFG (CO ARNG) from 1983 to 1984, working in the PAC (administration) section of the Bn HQ. At that time non-airborne qualified soldiers (which was me) wore the standard BDU cap. Airborne but non-SF qualified soldiers wore the green beret with the "candy stripe" underneath the crest (the crest was worn directly on the beret) and SF qualified soldiers wore the green beret with the full flash and crest. In fact, getting SF qualified was oftern referred to as being "full flash" qualified. This was before the 18 series career management field (SF) was created.

 

In 1990, on active duty, I was assigned to the 3/1st SFG at Fort Lewis, WA as an intelligence analyst, not SF qualified. At that time the 18 CMF had been created and the Special Forces tab had also been created, designating those who were SF qualified. In 1990 all personnel assigned to the Group wore the green beret with the full flash and the only way to tell an SF qualified soldier from a non-SF was by the presence of the tab on the left shoulder. There were at least 4 female soldiers assigned to the Group HQ and they all wore the green beret. I still have my green beret with the 1st group (yellow and black) flash.

 

(Also, in those days, all the "issue" berets had liners in them and the first thing we'd do when getting a beret issued was to cut the liner out. Some people kept one "lined" beret in their foot or wall locker for inspections, because "technically" removing the liner was against regs. FWIW in the year I was with 1st group I never saw that reg enforced.)

 

In 1992 I was assigned to 3/3 SFG at Bragg. I was assigned to the MI Detachment which is part of the battalion Headquarters and Support Company. We all wore the green beret until 1 January 1993. On that date, non-SF qualified personnel were directed to stop wearing the green beret and to wear the maroon beret instead. (I remember the date well because the message came out in mid-December, and a guy in my section got yelled at by the First Sergeant for showing up in formation in a maroon beret in December.)

 

In 1999, I had left active duty and joined the CO National Guard and went back to the 5/19th SFG, this time to the MI Detachment. Again, we wore the maroon beret with the 19th group flash and crest.

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I don't have the above reference materials and certainly flashes/ovals are not my area. The berets I posted are untouched - as I received from my Dad years ago. Here is a clip of his DD 2-1 showing his service with the 297th when he wore these two berets. I can post better ( closer ) pictures of the flashes later on. The 1976-80 1-143rd flash above certainly looks the same, the maroon bars seem thinner but that may be splitting hairs. All I can say for certain is that the flash in question was worn by the 297th. My Dad was promoted to CW3 in '82. The 297th started wearing the green beret shortly after they gained the CEWI designation. So the maroon beret is as my Dad wore it in '82-'84ish.

 

 

The one thing I have learned in 40 years of collecting is to " never say never".

Your Fathers's unit could have picked up some left over 1-143rd (type I I ) flashes after the 143rd was inactivated and used them till they switched to the other design when they went to the Forest Green Beret.

This is why I like collecting, 40 years and I am still finding new information on "old" items.

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The one thing I have learned in 40 years of collecting is to " never say never".

Your Fathers's unit could have picked up some left over 1-143rd (type I I ) flashes after the 143rd was inactivated and used them till they switched to the other design when they went to the Forest Green Beret.

This is why I like collecting, 40 years and I am still finding new information on "old" items.

 

Very good point, I couldn't agree with you more. I think when dealing with short-lived, smaller units, especially in USAR & NG you find things "out of the ordinary". My Dad still gets together with some of the old guys from the 297th. I'll ask him next time they meet to see if anyone can shed an more light on the berets/flashes.

 

Here are two better pics of the flashes for reference

 

 

post-122639-0-96325500-1411236530.jpg

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  • 1 year later...

Interesting Posts on 297th, I am a former unit member (1980 - 1990), Bob Davis, I knew your Dad, great man. Quick history of the flashes on the Maroon / Green berets the 297th wore. The flash on the left is from the 1-143rd Airborne Infantry, 36th Airborne Infantry BDE, TX ARNG. These were provided to unit members by a former 1-143rd member who had transferred to the 297th (SFC Robert S. Johnson). The flash on the right was the one approved by Institute of Heraldry, when the unit inactivated in 1990, it was returned to Heraldry, Years later when the 337th MI BN (ABN) needed a flash for their maroon berets, one of the unit members requested that the 337th be authorized to wear the former 297th MI CO flash. Heraldry allows the re-issue of flash they are never permanently retired. If anybody interested in the a more detailed history of the 297th, to include all the different flashes, crests, etc and reasons why, I have it, but don't want to drag this post out too far.

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seanmc1114

Regarding the green vs. maroon beret question, I believe as others have stated in years past all soldiers assigned to a Special Forces unit would wear the green beret with the distinction between Special Forces qualified and non-qualified being the wear of the full flash vs. the candy stripe. I guess the adoption of the Special Forces tab in the 80's to denote those who were Special Forces qualified negated the flash vs. candy stripe distinction. But over the years the green beret has taken on a whole mystique of its own such that it really symbolizes the soldier more so than the unit. I'm not sure if the regulations officially denote the wearing of the green beret by only those who are authorized the Special Forces tab, but my understanding is that it is a symbolic of Special Forces qualification as the tab itself. Of course a Special Forces qualified soldier assigned to a non Special Forces unit would still wear his SF tab but not the green beret, instead wearing the maroon beret if assigned to an airborne unit or black beret for any other unit.

 

On the other hand, I think the maroon beret is more of an organizational symbol than a personal qualification. As Special Forces units are airborne by definition, those who are assigned but not Special Forces qualified wear the maroon beret as organizational headgear just as non-airborne soldiers assigned to an airborne unit nevertheless wear the maroon beret and Airborne tab as part of their shoulder sleeve insignia (82nd Airborne Division, XVIII Airborne Corps, 101st Airborne Division, etc.) with the presence of the parachutist badge denoting individual airborne qualification (the same being true with the Air Assault Badge in the 101st).

 

I guess Rangers fall somewhere in the middle. Even though the tan beret (and formerly black beret) are symbolic of the Ranger ethos, they are more of an organizational item rather than individual qualification as even non Ranger qualified members of Ranger units wear the tan beret with the Ranger tab itself being the only manifestation of individual Ranger qualification.

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  • 4 years later...

Good Morning,

 

The beret flash on the right with the blood red bars is the Heraldry dept official flash.  I know, I was the Warrant Officer that had it reassigned to teh 337th MI BN (USAR) after the 297th was inactivated.  The 337th, at that time was CAPSTONED to the 525 MI BDE / 18th ABN CORP.

 

As far as personnel in the 297th being "SF qualified", remember that Army Special Forces qualification, in the beginning was an "additional skill identified", ASI = S, much like being "jump qualified" earned you you an ASI = P, the training, coordinated by the Infantry Branch was also available via correspondence course training...

 

The "Long Tab" did not come about until Army SOF became a MACOM (via SOCOM) in the mid to late eighties. There was a period of time when enlisted, Officer and Warrant Officer personnel with ASI = S were in a gray area, Army ARPERCEN and the US Army Infantry Branch (proponent of the ASI = S) were uncertain of what to do with ASI=S qualified personnel who did not want to move to the new MACOM.  if you were an MI Warrant Officer with ASI = P and ASI = S and did NOT want to go to SOCOM, there was no way (at the time) that ARPERCEN could add the ASI to your MOS, only to your DD 214...

 

Also, remember that back then (in the 70's and early 80's) ASI = S training was also offered by correspondence course...further muddying the waters when the SOCOM / MACOM came into being.  This got "lost in the shuffle" as ARPERCEN was transitioned to MILPERCEN.

 

The 297th was intended to be a "study" for the future of Intell support for the planned SOCOM / MACOM.  The 297th went thru two TO&E changes based on years of support experience with 19th Group and other OCONUS deployments:  their initial "M" series TO&E and the final, "L" series TO&E, it was also a study for validation of the CEWI concepts in relation to the INSCOM changes.  As we see today, the INSCOM changes have left the US Army vulnerable and the CEWI concepts and capabilities are sorely needed and the US Army is coming from behind to build them (see "Old CROWS").

 

Learning from the past is never easy, in this instance, ARSOF could do everyone a "solid" and study the 297 as a solid foundation for SOF CEWI organization in the future.

 

Just my .02 cents...

 

Feel free to change my mind?  [email protected]

 

 

 

 

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  • 10 months later...
On 5/17/2016 at 8:34 PM, seanmc1114 said:

Of course a Special Forces qualified soldier assigned to a non Special Forces unit would still wear his SF tab but not the green beret,

This statement is not correct.  A SF qualified soldier not assigned to SF unit can wear the GB as long as the Commander has no objection.  The regulation does not specify what level the commander has to be. I did my last years in PSOP I was 1SG I wore the Marron Beret by choice.  I could of worn my GB and was asked why I didn't.  I had the tab and felt I should wear the head gear of the unit I was standing in front of.

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