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Maroon Special Forces Beret?


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Constabulary

I recently stumbled over a pictures showing a SF soldier wearing a maroon Beret with Special Forces flash and USSF SSI on his green dress. Can someone explain this? I always thought the USSF wear or wore Rifle Green Berets.

 

 

 

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He is attached, or possibly even assigned, to a Special Forces unit, but in a support role, and is not Special Forces qualified.

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He's airborne qualified and attached to an SF unit. Because he's not SF qualified (no tab), he wears the morroon airborne beret rather than the green beret.

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Note he does not have a Special Forces qualification tab. In days gone by, troops assigned to SF units, but not SF-qualified did wear the Green Beret with the recognition bar in lieu of a full flash.

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Constabulary

wow - that was fast!

 

I just wanted to post some more pictures I have found.

This seems to be Vietnam era beret ( I have the same beret with similar lining in Rifle Green in my collection) but I thought the unqualified wore the "Candy Bar" instead the full flash during the Vietnam era?

 

EDIT:

 

I see - assigned to SF and not SF qualified...

So he came from a different unit to "support" the SF unit probably because of some special skills or so, right?

 

 

Another EDIT:

 

so if I´m right, during the VN era the unqualified SF member wore the candy bar with a green beret and the assigned + unqualified bore a maroon beret + full flash?

post-5069-0-54124200-1405274112.jpg

post-5069-0-97132300-1405274114.jpg

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wow - that was fast!

 

I just wanted to post some more pictures I have found.

This seems to be Vietnam era beret ( I have the same beret with similar lining in Rifle Green in my collection) but I thought the unqualified wore the "Candy Bar" instead the full flash during the Vietnam era?

 

EDIT:

 

I see - assigned to SF and not SF qualified...

So he came from a different unit to "support" the SF unit probably because of some special skills or so, right?

 

 

Another EDIT:

 

so if I´m right, during the VN era the unqualified SF member wore the candy bar with a green beret and the assigned + unqualified bore a maroon beret + full flash?

 

There were no maroon berets in SF during the Vietnam era. Everyone assigned to Group (SF Qualiified or not) wore the green beanie.

 

There are many slots in SF that are not filled by SF qualified personnel . IE: Clerks, Mechanics, Intel.. etc They don't always come from another unit, they can be assigned to SF right out of AIT.

 

The pic you posted of the SP4 wearing the maroon beret with 7th Grp flash isn't Vietnam era...he's wearing an RDI over his name tag, a practice that began in 1981.

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Constabulary

I know the pic of the SP4 is not Vietnam era (pretty obvious).

 

But I wonder what the beret in post #6 is

 

I have the same beret but in Rifle Green in my collection and a couple of month ago a member said these berets (in rifle green) with that certain lining + tag are Vn era and private purchased. So I wonder what this beret maroon could be as it has this certain lining with SF tag inside the and a cut edge JFK Special Warfare Center flash + crest.

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I got out of the army in May 1973. I never saw a maroon beret until I came back in in July 1974. As far as I can recall those were PX berets. Keep in mind I've been retired 23 years. At the time we were more concerned that troops had the proper headgear more so than where it came from, ie, PX, Clothing Sales, issued, or Pawn shop. This is why I don't collect head gear or uniforms. Too complicated. LOL!! SKIP

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Constabulary

I know the USAF Para Rescue had maroon berets (have one) but this one is a bit strange (but interesting somehow) and really would like to get some more info

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Not sure why it's strange? They made the support folks wear the maroon berets because overweight or pregnant soldiers wearing Green Berets tarnished the true image of Special Forces. When there were issues or problems w/ support troops ie bar fights etc, all Green Berets suffered by being lumped together. There were times that support troops were allowed to wear the green beret because of assignment. Didn't work out. Saw these problems when I was in, and still hear about them once in a while. SKIP

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Here are two berets that my Dad wore. He was a Military Intelligence Warrant Officer in the Army Reserve assigned to the 297th MI Co. CEWI/SF (ABN). An interesting unit, it was the intelligence company that supported 19th Group. The 297th was inactivated in 1990. My Dad was not SF qualified, and wore a maroon beret at first, then a green beret. I can't find my notes right now as to when he was promoted to CW4, but will keep looking. The 297th was a separate unit and its members were not assigned to 19th group. At any rate, an interesting example from the 1980's of berets worn by personnel supporting an SF unit.

post-122639-0-42890600-1405289188.jpg

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In 1984 it was redesignated - 297th MI (CEWI) (Special Forces Group) (ABN). That would explain the change to the green beanie.

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I have some more info that I will post later about the 297th, but I also have a question. When was the flash on your dad's maroon beret used? I have not been able to identify it. The authorized (85) flash is the one on the green beret.

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Couldn't wait, so just got off the phone with Dad. The flash on the maroon beret is what he wore when he first joined the 297th ( circa 1978 ), this is the first Flash worn by the 297th MI Co. The 297th went through TIOH to get this flash approved. At the time, my Dad says there less than 100 soldiers in the 297th. Around 1985 the unit went through some changes which my Dad seems to recall included getting the CEWI designation. This is when the 297th started wearing the Green instead of the Maroon beret. They also started wearing "jungle" fatigues, the Special Forces SSI, and received the new flash ( shown on the green beret in my pic above ). For airborne qualified personnel in the unit there was also a matching oval.

 

The 297th had some SF-qualified personnel & some airborne-qualified. They supported 19th group, but he remembers that guys would often go TDY to support 5th group & 7th Group.

 

What my Dad can't remember is what SSI the 297th wore prior to 1985. I have some of his uniforms, but they have all have the SF SSI. Not being SF-qualified, my Dad wore this with an Airborne Tab.

 

Somewhere I have all my Dad's paperwork, I'll keep digging. Might firm up some dates.

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"National Security Agency (NSA) restrictions prohibited the activation of Communications and Electronic Warfare Intelligence (CEWI) units within the Army National Guard structure. Signal intelligence is a federal responsibility, with the NSA as the appointed proponent. State participation was prohibited by law, executive order and by directives. the 142nd Military Intelligence Battalion (Linguistics), Salt Lake City, Utah ( now an MI Group), was the only major Army National Guard intelligence unit in the ARNG inventory. The NSA policy, restricting CEWI units to the USAR (under federal control) was overturned by the Department of Defense in 1988. This regulatory change allowed the activation of CEWI units within the ARNG structure specifically supporting the then recently activated ARNG 29th Infantry Division (Light) in Maryland. The change authorized requisitions for CEWI equipment. The CEWI support for the two ARNG SF Groups (the 19th and 20th) was provided by the 297th and 365th Intelligence Companies (CEWI). Both companies being assigned to the USAR.

 

The 297th MI Co (CEWI) aligned to support the 19th SFG initially wore the 19thy SFG beret flash The TIOH deemed it inappropriate for a USAR unit to wear insignia approved for the ARNG. This resulted in approval for a distinctive flash for the 297th MI Company. Compounding the situation was the denial by their peacetime headquarters the company to wear the SF SSI. The Commander, 63rd Army Reserve Command insisted that the 297th wear the 63rd AR Command insignia. These parochial difference were finally resolved following a change of command for the 63rd AR Com, with the 297th wearing their authorized SF insignia., and the 19th SFG beret flash, finally supporting a "One Army" policy.

 

During the summer and fall of 1990 the four USAR MI Detachments assigned to the Reserve Component SF Groups were inactivated. Their personnel positions were absorbed into the Intelligence Detachments of the Support Companies of the respective SF Groups"

 

 

Source: A Concise History of US Army Special Operations Forces with Lineage and Insignia - Volume 1 (2nd Edition) by Geoff Barker

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Thanks for the history here. I'm going to have to add this book to my library. I went through the things I have from my Dad last night. This explains why one of his BDU's has 63rd ARCOM patch and the other the SF SSI. Also I have a loose 19th SF (solid teal) beret flash. Shortly after the 297th was inactivated my Dad retired. One of the neat things I have from the 297th is a numbered challenge coin.

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  • 2 months later...

The flash on the Maroon Beret shown with the 297th Green Beret is that of the 1st Bn 143rd Inf. (authorized 18 Mar 2010)

If still active this unit has elements in Texas and Rhode Island (I think) and is a free standing Abn Inf Bn.

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The flash on the Maroon beret referenced above is the original 297th. It is white/maroon stripe on light blue background with dark blue border. 1-143rd is red/white stripe on light background with light border.

 

 

post-122639-0-51872600-1411057245.jpg

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The flash on the Maroon beret referenced above is the original 297th. It is white/maroon stripe on light blue background with dark blue border. 1-143rd is red/white stripe on light background with light border.

 

 

Guess I am just a little confused on how a merrowed edge Flash would be the type I and how a cut edge flash would be the type I I for a unit, just seems backwards to me.

Also, see attached a couple of extracts from Geoff Barker's CD/Book "A Chronolgy of U.S.Army Airborne and Special Operations Forces" which may help shed a little light on the issue.

post-28488-0-33862900-1411070474.jpg

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I don't have the above reference materials and certainly flashes/ovals are not my area. The berets I posted are untouched - as I received from my Dad years ago. Here is a clip of his DD 2-1 showing his service with the 297th when he wore these two berets. I can post better ( closer ) pictures of the flashes later on. The 1976-80 1-143rd flash above certainly looks the same, the maroon bars seem thinner but that may be splitting hairs. All I can say for certain is that the flash in question was worn by the 297th. My Dad was promoted to CW3 in '82. The 297th started wearing the green beret shortly after they gained the CEWI designation. So the maroon beret is as my Dad wore it in '82-'84ish.

 

 

post-122639-0-33401400-1411143525.jpg

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