tripoli Posted June 23, 2014 Share #1 Posted June 23, 2014 Hi, I just picked up an interesting pistol and I can't find any information about it, maybe some here will know. It is a Smith & Wesson Model 41 in 22lr, it has a 7 1/2 inch barrel. Serial number indicates it was made in the late 70"s. I have heard that these may have been used by Army and Airforce as trainers. What's different is that it is U.S. marked on the frame. Further, the barrel and slide have been crudely engraved by hand with the last part of the serial number and the word "property" has likewise been engraved onto the frame. I've seen ugly armorer marks before and maybe that's what these are. What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Flick Posted June 23, 2014 Share #2 Posted June 23, 2014 Hello Tripoli: Yes, various branches of the US armed forces have made relatively small purchases of the Model 41 over the years. It is a very high quality pistol, terribly accurate and was intended for marksmanship competition, not training. The Model 41 is still in production to this day. The U.S. marking is in the proper location and appears from your pics to be a factory roll mark of the style used by S&W on the M41s and the related M46s. The electro-pencil markings are hard to explain. I have not seen any similar markings on the S&W target autos or the Ruger Mark I and Mark II .22 training auto pistols sold to the Government over the years since the mid-1950s. I have seen crude electro-pencil markings on early post-war USAF issued High Standard .22 pistols for arctic survival kits, and on some long guns such as the Winchester Model 52 .22 rifles. That electro-pencil marking unfortunately is pretty ugly and, for some collectors, would be a detriment to the value. In any condition US shipped Model 41s are scarce guns. In nice condition they are desirable and valuable. I will say that I have observed at least one known fake M41 with US markings. For that reason I would suggest that you obtain a factory letter from S&W Historian Roy Jinks to confirm that your serial number was for a M41 shipped to a US Government destination. I can supply you with a form for that if you would like to pursue a factory letter. I hope that information has been helpful to you. Regards, Charlie Flick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted June 24, 2014 Share #3 Posted June 24, 2014 I would also encourage you to letter it and, hopefully, report back here what the letter reveals. There aren't many of these around and your pistol is outside the range of previous observations so a letter would be quite useful to those who study such things. Regards, Kevin Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1563621 Posted June 24, 2014 Share #4 Posted June 24, 2014 Nice pick/up of a rare marked 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankerman Posted June 24, 2014 Share #5 Posted June 24, 2014 USUALLY again USUALLY ...the U & S are closer together and have a period after each letter. again USUALLY....my model 46 is stamped U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted June 24, 2014 Share #6 Posted June 24, 2014 USUALLY again USUALLY ...the U & S are closer together and have a period after each letter. again USUALLY....my model 46 is stamped U.S. Pictures, man, pictures! Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankerman Posted June 24, 2014 Share #7 Posted June 24, 2014 no camera at this time...sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Flick Posted June 24, 2014 Share #8 Posted June 24, 2014 Kevin: The pic below is of my USGI Model 46 shipped in 1963. It shows the U.S. marking which, as tankerman pointed out, has the periods after each letter. Whether that practice was followed later when the original poster's Model 41 pistol was produced is unknown to me. The style of the letters appears similar to me on both pistols. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted June 25, 2014 Share #9 Posted June 25, 2014 no camera at this time...sorry OK, how about some further details--serial number, barrel length, ship date and destination (if you've lettered it).... Thanks, Kevin Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted June 25, 2014 Share #10 Posted June 25, 2014 Kevin: The pic below is of my USGI Model 46 shipped in 1963. It shows the U.S. marking which, as tankerman pointed out, has the periods after each letter. Whether that practice was followed later when the original poster's Model 41 pistol was produced is unknown to me. The style of the letters appears similar to me on both pistols. Regards, Charlie pix672828720 ed.jpg Charlie, Here's another (not mine) with the same style of U.S. marking. Regards, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankerman Posted June 25, 2014 Share #11 Posted June 25, 2014 Are there any "P" proof markings..or the DoD Eagle stamp? Usually..again...Usually these items were proofed in some way. ??just my thoughts...MY S&W's, Ruger,HS, and Colt are proofed /US PROPERTY. The 41 does appear, IMO, to possibly be service connected but again a FACTORY LETTER would be best. just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripoli Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted June 26, 2014 My thanks to all who have responded. This is very helpful and the letter is a good place to go next. I would appreciate the factory request form, Charlie. I will re-post here after S&W responds with more info. No proof marks found. The engravings were hard for me to get past but I reasoned that this would be the only US 41 to ever fall into my lap so I went for it. I work with an ex-armorer (Airborne) and he claims to have done worse than that to some equipment placed in his care. So, for the present, that's my story and I'm sticking to it... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted June 26, 2014 Share #13 Posted June 26, 2014 I hope you're right. It is kind of a negative way to think about it but if someone was going to add some markings to increase the value they probably would not have been so sloppy. Good luck with the letter. I look forward to learning what it reveals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted June 26, 2014 Share #14 Posted June 26, 2014 tripoli, I've been researching this a bit more and have discovered that there were 900 of these pistols (Model 41 with 7 3/8" barrel) shipped to the USMC in late 1973-1974. They were US marked. The other examples that Charlie and I know about were USAF guns which could explain why they are marked differently. I think it is even more important to get a letter to confirm that yours was one of the Marine Corps guns. Regards, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Flick Posted June 26, 2014 Share #15 Posted June 26, 2014 I would appreciate the factory request form, Charlie. I will re-post here after S&W responds with more info. Hi Tripoli: I have sent you a Private Message through our Forum concerning the factory letter request form. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripoli Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted June 26, 2014 Hi Tripoli: I have sent you a Private Message through our Forum concerning the factory letter request form. Regards, Charlie Charlie, I can't get through with the e-mail you sent me. Pls try again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted June 29, 2014 Share #17 Posted June 29, 2014 Here's the link to find the form to request a Jinks letter. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757825_-1_757814_757812_image I'm posting this from my iPhone, so if the link doesn't work for some reason, go to the S&W website, then Customer Service, the Firearm History Request. David Albert [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Bibliotecario Posted July 1, 2014 Share #18 Posted July 1, 2014 I've never heard of the Model 41 or any other .22 pistol used by the army as a as a trainer. In my military experience with pistols all the army cared about was that the soldier didn't lose his pistol or accidentally shoot himself. But I distinctly recall when I reported to the USAMU to shoot on the all-Army team four decades ago being told that regardless of our preference, everyone would use the Model 41 for .22 matchs. I don't recall any markings on my issue pistol to distinguish it from a commerical weapon, but it was a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripoli Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted April 1, 2015 Okay, I got the letter from Smith & Wesson. I can't figure out how to attach a jpeg here but the letter states that my serial number was shipped on November 21, 1973 to USMC Devel, Va with "US" property markings. This supports my suspicion regarding the etched numbers being applied by an armorer. Please let me know what your thoughts are regarding value. BTW, it shoots beautifully and is very accurate. Many thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted April 1, 2015 Share #20 Posted April 1, 2015 tripoli, Thank you for following up. If you want to email the jpeg to me I'll post it for you. PM inbound. Regards, Kevin Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1SG_1st_Cav Posted April 2, 2015 Share #21 Posted April 2, 2015 I shot on the 35th Artillery Group pistol team back in the early to mid-1960's in Germany. Back then it was a three-pistol event, in which we shot .22 semi-autos; .38 revolvers; and .45 semi-autos. I've never heard of the US Army using .22 semi-autos as a trainers. In basic training in 1960 we shot the M-1 & the BAR period! If we had gone to war, that was the weapon we would use. When I went to Korea after basic and AIT, we shot .45s, M-1 carbines, ;30 cal MG's, .50 cal MGs, and 3.5" Rocket Launchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted April 2, 2015 Share #22 Posted April 2, 2015 Here is the letter on tripoli's pistol. Thanks again for sharing this with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now