De Oppresso Liber badges

[e19]

According to an article written by Geoff Barker in "The Drop", the Special Forces Association magazine, the "skull DUI" were "incorrectly manufactured DUI variations" I also shows the variation without holes with the fat handle on the dagger and calls it an "incorrectly manufactured variation"

[e19]

Re: the un-hallmarked "skulls" I have a number of them that came directly from Grp or Co supply rooms. All have the vertical pin positioning...I have my doubts about the ones with horizontal pin positioning.

[e19]

I just checked and the article on the DUIs is available to view on the Special Forces Association website. Go to "The Drop Archive" and click on the Fall 2013 issue, the go to pages 118-121.

[Tonomachi]

Re: the un-hallmarked "skulls" I have a number of them that came directly from Grp or Co supply rooms. All have the vertical pin positioning...I have my doubts about the ones with horizontal pin positioning.

 

Thanks for sharing this information as now we know that the unmarked early skulls beret badge with vertical pins (photo Post 25) is a legitimate period piece. So the ones with the early hallmarks or skulls pieces as well as what I call the transitional beret badge with the fat handle bayonet were not manufactured to specifications and they were meant for wear as a DI on epaulets instead of the beret. Here are two early beret badges (9 over M NS Meyer & 6D Denmark Military Equip Co) with horizontally placed pins from my collection. I don't know for sure but I thought they were legitimate pieces as they have the early hallmarks (1 number 1 letter) while the later I guess corrected specification beret badges have the newer series hallmarks (2 numbers one letter). So you were never issued or ever came across any of the skulls hallmarked beret badges?

[Tonomachi]

Just read the article and this clears a lot up and thanks for sharing this again (see link to article):

 

http://www.viewmycatalog.com/SFA/TheDrop/drop-3q2013/index.html

[e19]

The 3 on the left are '60s issue, the 2 on the right I obtained in the late 90s, and I have no idea of their age or origin.

[e19]

Flipsides

[e19]

Every 60s DUI issued to me except for the skull type, was designed like the ones in this photo (both G23s, and D22s). Notice the base is recessed to accept the arrows and the recesses are outlined in silver.

[tredhed2]

The DI in post #18 is Japanese made. They look like any number of 7th Cavalry Regt DIs made exactly the same way - and handle it carefully, the pins are easily broken.

[Tonomachi]

Every 60s DUI issued to me except for the skull type, was designed like the ones in this photo (both G23s, and D22s). Notice the base is recessed to accept the arrows and the recesses are outlined in silver.

 

Great information and opposite of what I thought had happened with the manufacture of these crests. I thought that they modified the crests in this manner so the crossed arrows and V42 knife would adhere better but maybe to save money they eliminated the recessing of the harp which was a more costly process.

 

I recently came across this piece on eBay which sold for 74 dollars. It looks just like the crest in Post #18 so either they were both made in Japan or they were both made in Cambodia.

[rd12]

Here's my addition to the topic, these are off of my Dad's Class A's from the mid '80s.

 

Marked: MADE IN USA NS MEYER INC NEW YORK 22M

 

 

[rd12]

Close up of the back;

 

 

[hardheaded]

Here's a G-23 MADE IN U.S.A.

[Rattle]

Here is a batch of unmarked german made kissing skulls insignias.

 

[Rattle]

The backs.

 

 

 

 

Stephan

[Tonomachi]

The backs.

 

DSCF2234.jpg

 

 

 

Stephan

 

I could be wrong but something about these "kissing skull" De Oppressso Liber beret badges don't look right to me. I've never come across the smaller ones before and the lower left piece seems a little too thick from the norm. The clutch pins aren't right for US manufactured pieces but I guess correct for post war German or possibly Japanese made pieces. If this is an original piece then it is one I've never come across before and would be a rare theater made piece. I'm always suspicious and wondering since these early SF beret badges are commanding very high prices now if they aren't being copied by someone.

 

 

 

 

[firefighter]

 

I could be wrong but something about these "kissing skull" De Oppressso Liber beret badges don't look right to me. I've never come across the smaller ones before and the lower left piece seems a little too thick from the norm. The clutch pins aren't right for US manufactured pieces but I guess correct for post war German or possibly Japanese made pieces. If this is an original piece then it is one I've never come across before and would be a rare theater made piece. I'm always suspicious and wondering since these early SF beret badges are commanding very high prices now if they aren't being copied by someone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree.That was my first thought too.It looks to be curved, not flat.Not something that would be used on a beret.Not sure about the small ones.Maybe for civilian use?

[Rattle]

Well the small ones are just small Pins. I think for other purposes not official. I have lots of small DUI from the factory. These insignia came all from two lots i have bought here in Germany, at my local flea market. All german made insignia. And yes the bigger one is curved. On this fleamarket i have bought many large german made insignia lots over the years. The Poellath factory is just 15 miles away and nearly all of the marked insignias were Poellath made. I try to find the pics. I also have never seen this skull variation, but i do not doubt its an legit local made piece.

Stephan

 

Here is the picture of the whole lot i've found with the curved skull DUI.

Most of the insignias are small pins. Poellath made. Oh.. even a lot of the smaller insignias are curved

 

[Rattle]

Here is the other big lot.

 

[Rattle]

And this is the other lot with the unfinished skull insignia and the second small pin.

I found the small pins on the same fleamarket but at different times and in different lots of German made insignias.

 

[Rattle]

As for the curve..i have no problem with that since many german made insignia are curved more or less.

 

Here are just a few. And note the thickness.

 

Stephan

 

 

I don't wanna hijack this thread...just show you why i undoubtely believe this insignia is a real german theater made piece and not a fake.

[Rattle]

I made a comparison shot with this 509th Infantry DUI. It is also german made in the late 1950's to early 1960's. when the 509th was stationed in Germany.

I have found it on another local fleamarket in Germany as a single DUI.

It is not curved but note the material, the pins and the thickness...all the same as on the skulls SF DUI.

The more i look at it...could be also Kalka, Augsburg made

 

Stephan

 

 

[Tonomachi]

Thanks for the additional photographs. It looks like you have a German made US Army Special Forces beret badge which I've never come across before. I know that Poellath manufactured some of the early 10th Special Forces Group unit crests so I don't see why they wouldn't have made a version of the US made "kissing skulls" beret badge. I've seen the 10th SF Grp unit crests with the Poellath hallmark of a "P" within a circle and a few without a hallmark but with the same clutch pins. I think your SF beret badge is more Poellath than Kalka, Augsburg, which I've found uses a Lucite covering instead of fired enameling.

[ODA021]

This is one I purchased from kaulka in Augsburg Germany along with some early 10th group crest. Kaulka said he made both for 10th group guys at Tolz. I have another set that has Screw posts instead of the nail posts that is a German made one.

 

[ODA021]

Just to further stir the pot, these are ones I had made when my team was in Niger. These are made out of melted down old French coins.