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My Great Great Uncle service uniform ?


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Hello To All,

These are scan's of a picture of my GGU Matthey Fisher. One is of a close up of the original.

One is of the original pic and I was hoping the experts can tell me what they see and what they think about the uniform he is wearing and were he is located at the time of this picture.The original pic on the right was taken in Kansas City . I'm guessing this is during the late 1880's due to the helmet he is wearing. But that is about it. Any and all help or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Semper Fi

Phil

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Great Indian War images. Looking at the uniform carefully, I am pretty confident to make the following observations. He is obviously mounted regular U.S. Army and of the enlisted ranks. He is cavalry, despite the plume on his helmet and the dark facings on his dress coat. For some reason the photographic process rendered the yellow (branch of service trim) dark. He has a M1860 Cavalry saber which further reinforces the idea that he is cavalry. Though the helmet is an M1881 cavalry helmet, I believe he is wearing an earlier model coat, in fact I am pretty sure it was originally an M1872 Dress Coat. This is based on the short collar with the rounded corners at the opening (under the chin). Originally the M1872 Coat had branch of service panels (yellow) on a dark blue collar (same as coat body), instead of having a collar of solid branch of service collar as with later coats. Into the 1880's these coats were often modified to the full yellow collar until the M-1885 Cavalry dress coat was adopted. That coat though similar had a higher solid yellow collar. The color went from lemon yellow in the M1872 coats to an almost orange yellow with M-1885 Cavalry Coat. I would say the image dates mid 1880's.

Thanks for showing,

Terry in Colorado

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Seeking Model 1895 and 1902 Named Officer coats as well as Spanish American War Tropical Uniforms.
Also pre WW2 marine uniforms. Always pre-1945 Colorado National Guard Items wanted! Also seeking Rhodesian

Uniforms and Gear used by Americans in the Rhodesian Security Forces during the Bush War (Africa).

 

Fortune cookie say: "An expert is someone that knows so much about so little."

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Thank You Terry.

This is a scan of the back of those pic's and the upper right corner has 86146 which I always thought might have been the date of the pic. So your thought of mid 1880's confirms what I was thinking.

Thanks Again for your help.

Semper Fi

Phil

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Thanks for the comments!

I would like to know one more thing about this Pic. I have been looking at this type of helmet for a future purchase. What I have noticed is that some have numbers on the shield of the eagle on the front plate of the helmet. Can somebody tell if this helmet has a number and what number do they think it would be or would this type not have a number on it?

 

Semper Fi

Phil

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A truly GREAT pics Phil! :love: :love:

 

In the lower left one he appears to be wearing a dark blue flannel shirt from the 1870s patterns, but it's too much difficult to tell what the exact sub-variant. The same for the fatigue blouse, other than watching for its five-button style.

But the most interesting item for me, as always, are the riding Gloves - possibly a somehow trivial pieces for most collectors, but literally fascinating for me.

 

Just the peripheral embroidering along wrist gauntlets is visible here, but they perhaps should belong to one of following patterns from my collection. Almost six years in locating and getting two pairs of them.

Laying on the (repro, sigh!!) cavalry guidon, are an original pair of Pattern 1884 gloves. The same in the other pic together with a slightly different Pattern (shorter wrist).

 

Greetings from Italy! Franco.

 

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Hello Franco,

I'm glad you like the pic's. It is one of my favorite pic's of my Family. Since I am the only one in the family that has an interest in these things, It was sent to me to research. I greatly appreciated all the info received about the photo's.

I still would like to find out more about the helmet plate.. Would this version have a number on the shield and if it does what number would be on it?

 

Semper Fi

Phil

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  • 2 months later...

Wow! Wonderful pictures, and even more amazing that you can pin-point your relative! The helmet plate would indeed have had a numeral on the shield--the regiment to which he would have belonged. The cavalry regiments were 1-10, and you can rule out 9 and 10 since he's white--and they would have been at Fort Leavenworth. I don't have the Army Cavalry Lineage Series at the house, but you can rule out most of the regiments based on their location in 86 as so many were in the southwest. If memory serves.

 

The 4th, 6th and 8th were primarily in the southwest, the 3rd in Texas, and the 1st spread out and in the Dakotas around 86.

 

I wouldn't rule out the 2nd,5th or the 7th; but pieces of all the regiments were spread out, so there are possibilities for a lot of them.

 

v/r

Wolf

 

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Thank You very much Steve.. Looking at those dates he was only in for a year and 5 months. There is a family story about one of my great uncles saving horses from a burning barn while in the military and he was badly burned. I wonder if it was him and he was medically discharged or if Matthey just got booted out for something else. I'm heading back to Philly this weekend for my Mother's 80th birthday. I will have to see if I can get anymore info from the Family. .Once again thank you Steve. Semper Fi Phil.

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  • 4 years later...

Hello Everyone,

I hope everyone is having a great weekend.

I was offered the opportunity to have a older photo colorized. I excepted that offer and thought this one would be nice to have some color added.

 

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I think the person did a nice job. We tried to get the details of the uniform correct.

I know that from the replies to this tread , There are some very knowledgeable folks that study this time frame. Please share you thoughts on the coloring of the uniform.

 

Semper Fi

Phil

 

Cavalry pic in color uncle Mattew resize2.bmp

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Phil,

 

What a great great treasure you have in the photos you've shared. To have such historic photos showing a family member is amazing and, to me, priceless.

 

I haven't done nearly enough research, but I have a particular interest in the US Army during your pictures' time frame. One, I was in the 1stCAV and secondly have developed an interest in the US Indian Scouts.

 

Treasure those pictures.

 

Best,

 

Ken

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Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less."

GEN Robert E. Lee

 

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I'm glad you like them. The are a priceless piece of family history.

Who knows, Maybe I would have chosen a different branch of service If I had seen them when I was young.

The same goes for my avatar. It is of my uncle joe in the Army Air Force. If I knew that I might have become a flyboy.

OH THE WHAT IF'S OF LIFE!!!!

 

Semper Fi

Phil

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  • 3 weeks later...

I didn't ask for this , But the Gent who did the original colonization sent this to me saying he saw somethings he wanted to fix. I am extremly happy with his work.

I think this one looks amazing.

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I sent this one home to the Family in Philly to enjoy.

 

Semper Fi

Phil

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  • 1 month later...

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