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hbtcoveralls

HI Guys,

As a dedicated WWII re-enactor who's been there and back again, I was hoping to start a discussion about how to avoid having a good unit torn apart by politics. I've seen it happen so many times, a good unit full of hard chargers who seem really to have a good time and do great job, and then poof! its over. The cause, most often is politics. Strong wills and uncompromising attitudes? Unstated objections and internet back biting? Spend any time around re-enacting and I'm sure you too will experience it.

I don't want this to become a bitch session or to air any dirty laundry, but I would like to hear from anyone who has a suggestion about how to avoid your unit becoming the next casualty of Re-enacting politics.

Tom Bowers

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market garden
HI Guys,

As a dedicated WWII re-enactor who's been there and back again, I was hoping to start a discussion about how to avoid having a good unit torn apart by politics. I've seen it happen so many times, a good unit full of hard chargers who seem really to have a good time and do great job, and then poof! its over. The cause, most often is politics. Strong wills and uncompromising attitudes? Unstated objections and internet back biting? Spend any time around re-enacting and I'm sure you too will experience it.

I don't want this to become a bitch session or to air any dirty laundry, but I would like to hear from anyone who has a suggestion about how to avoid your unit becoming the next casualty of Re-enacting politics.

Tom Bowers

Tom, Believe me I have been doing reenacting for over 25 years. Chances be there is the political BS just join another unit and be around positive people. It is only a hobby It is not worth getting ryled up about. I have noticed that many people get a "Big head syndrum" when there in a leadership roll. Look at what you want to do in the hobby and do it. for your enjoyment not others. "Its better to walk away and then sit back and watch all the idiots fall from the stump" It is very hard to keep a unit together with such people in it. Let them play by themselves

I did exacly what I just told you and had the pleasure of watching the" idiots fall from the stump". It was rewarding. Feel free to PM me about this. Market garden

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hbtcoveralls
Tom, Believe me I have been doing reenacting for over 25 years. Chances be there is the political BS just join another unit and be around positive people. It is only a hobby It is not worth getting ryled up about. I have noticed that many people get a "Big head syndrum" when there in a leadership roll. Look at what you want to do in the hobby and do it. for your enjoyment not others. "Its better to walk away and then sit back and watch all the idiots fall from the stump" It is very hard to keep a unit together with such people in it. Let them play by themselves

I did exacly what I just told you and had the pleasure of watching the" idiots fall from the stump". It was rewarding. Feel free to PM me about this. Market garden

That's all quite true, but let's try and figure out how not to get there in the first place. It seems that most re-enactment groups begin as one person's idea of the perfect impression. Then others join who share the vision, but somewhere things can change and the vision falls apart and everyone just leaves angry. I too walked away from the group I started. Things just changed, our impressions had never been better, the unit had become respected among other units and the core unit was some of the best folks you would ever want to re-enact with. But suddenly, the unit factionalized and tried to tear itself apart. I left as much to save the unit as to go off and do something else. They're still in action but just not as good as they were or could be and still at each other's throats from time to time.

But there are plenty of groups that manage to be there year in and year out and still hold it together. How do they do it. What are the secrets of avoiding these squabbles. I'd just love to know.

T. Bowers

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market garden
That's all quite true, but let's try and figure out how not to get there in the first place. It seems that most re-enactment groups begin as one person's idea of the perfect impression. Then others join who share the vision, but somewhere things can change and the vision falls apart and everyone just leaves angry. I too walked away from the group I started. Things just changed, our impressions had never been better, the unit had become respected among other units and the core unit was some of the best folks you would ever want to re-enact with. But suddenly, the unit factionalized and tried to tear itself apart. I left as much to save the unit as to go off and do something else. They're still in action but just not as good as they were or could be and still at each other's throats from time to time.

But there are plenty of groups that manage to be there year in and year out and still hold it together. How do they do it. What are the secrets of avoiding these squabbles. I'd just love to know.

T. Bowers

Ok I'll tell you how I know it works. Set up the organization as non for profit.-Elect. your officers by this I mean Pres-.Vice pres.- Sec etc. The Vice presedent is always the Captain of the unit

 

or its leader. So they know what goes on in the company buisness. Start out small Not alot of leaders. If you use the WW2 TOE it helps. Then when you get the numbers (people)

 

They get promoted. The KEY to this is I have seen in C.W. and WW 2 reenacting is Have good leaders. and a BETTER Comander. You canot accept everyone in the unit. Have standerds to

 

go by a screening process. . Also a year probation then promote guys to Veteran status. In the WW2 we have NCO ( a leadership school) schools etc for our guys in my unit go attend. They

 

learn how to be a leader, learn map reading etc. In the CW reenacting it is the same training, good leaders, schools etc. ALSO offer your members something to look foward too.and they

 

will follow. Lead by example. Its easer for me to do this stuff than type it. MY 2 cents worth. Market garden

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  • 3 months later...

It is impossible to prevent politics from becoming an issue. Maybe in a small unit, but then when you go to a bigger event - politics enters.. I've just seen ithappen time and time again.

 

An interesting idea that works somewhat is to reduce the workload on the officers by having one set of officers for President, treasurer, etc dealing with everything thaqt happens off the battlefield. Then a second set of "event leaders" whose job is to deal with everything that will happen at the event (getting equipment, ammo, leading the unit, etc.)

 

 

 

But the best way I found to avoid it was to never join a unit that claims "they are the best XYZ group out there!"

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We had alot of problems for awhile ie. separate agendas, etc. Finally we set up a 5 member steering committee that makes the final decisions concerning events, membership, etc. This seems to help for us, as we can vote on which events to attend, members to join and members to boot. Leadership positions are for a year and elected. Do good and stay for the next year!

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The way our unit (see gaggle) works is that well we dont have an organization, board members, officers, whatever.

 

It's "Hey there's an event this weekend, lets go as this."

 

"OK we'll need beer."

 

That's our planning; no squabbling, BS elections etc. It works great. Plus we all pretty much get a long and have known each other for years and dont do any recruiting.

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Not trying to be funny here, but I always wondered.... How does a re-enactor choose his rank? I would think that most would want to be the CO or at least a staff/master sergeant. So is it decided by the group who is what rank or do guys rotate? I mean a squad of one private with the rest being a sergeant or above would look a little silly.

 

Just wondering.

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BeatDeadHorse.gif

It is impossible to prevent politics from becoming an issue.
I agree fully. I've been into re-enacting almost every time period you can with almost every major group in the country. They ALL have political issues. You can't escape it. thumbdown.gif I would argue that perhaps the internet has made it even worse than it used to be as word gets around (and heavily distorted) a lot faster than it used to.
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Not trying to be funny here, but I always wondered.... How does a re-enactor choose his rank? I would think that most would want to be the CO or at least a staff/master sergeant. So is it decided by the group who is what rank or do guys rotate? I mean a squad of one private with the rest being a sergeant or above would look a little silly.

 

Just wondering.

 

Well, you have to admit, picking who is going to do KP would be REEEEEEAL easy.... :lol:

 

Most people joining a unit do not get to choose their rank... most will start at private, just like normal. A possible exception to this would be someone who has just retired or separated from active service and holds a given rank. I have been researching some units out there for their rules and such and found a few that start you out as a private, and if you were on active duty and held rank, they vote on letting you wear that rank. Keep in mind a Captain coming off active duty is likely not going to walk into the unit commander's spot right away.

 

For example, I retired with the Rank of Sergeant. Some units I could join would only accept me as a private, period. No Argument. Other units may give me credit for having been on Active Duty and allow me to retain my active duty rank of Sergeant when I join. For some, I'm sure there is a probationary period after which I would regain the rank I achieved on active duty. It is all up to the unit you join.

 

That's my understanding...

 

As for politics, I tend to agree you will get that anywhere you go. It is rife on active duty even. I sat back at my last unit before I retired and watched a Master Sergeant get transferred from the Provost Marshal's Operation Sergeant job to a First Sergeant's slot in one of the detachments. The commander fought against him because she wanted a Sergeant First Class in the detachment to get the job. Once he was in the detachment, the SFC would back door the First Sergeant and go direct with the commander, withholding info from the 1SG and all... it got real ugly until the 1SG pulled the whole unit's NCOs together and let it be known that kind of action wouldnt be tolerated. He was within his rights to dress down that SFC for what she was doing, but he made it a whole NCO corps within the unit training event... not singling her out, but getting the message to her loud and clear all the same... to her, and to anyone else who would think to skirt their NCO support channel or chain of command.

 

A good unit should have leaders who at least understand the concept of leadership... maybe even going as far as to tapping those with leadership experience to perform in leadership roles. Would it be fair for example, to bring someone into a unit who was a leader in the active military, and force him to serve as a private under someone who has not served, and may not understand the concepts of leadership, or the fieldcraft? A good unit chain of command should take all this into account when assigning rank and duty positions withon the unit.

 

Just my two cents...

 

Wayne

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The way our unit (see gaggle) works is that well we dont have an organization, board members, officers, whatever.

 

It's "Hey there's an event this weekend, lets go as this."

 

"OK we'll need beer."

 

That's our planning; no squabbling, BS elections etc. It works great. Plus we all pretty much get a long and have known each other for years and dont do any recruiting.

 

 

Thats the unit I wanna join!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I don't do re-enacting; I don't have the time or money but I would imagine that if I were to join a group, I'd be a Private at first

 

If I were asked to be responsible for doing all the trash pickup after an event, and I was reliable at it, I'd be a PFC

 

If I then showed everyone I was reliable as somebody to help organize, setup a carpool to and from events maybe, load and unload gear, and become responsible for making sure people are there and on time, maybe I'd become a corporal or sergeant (kinda like real life?)

 

I would imagine that it would be entirely on trust and personal merit within the group. I think I'd probably demand some system like that becasue there's an obvious need for responsible people in an organization like that. If I'm bankrolling gear and equipment like a jeep and the unit's .30 cal, then I'd expect to be a 2LT maybe. If I'm some guy with a web belt and green fatigues with a rifle, why would I expect to be a General?

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Johan Willaert

Even if you're responsible for a certain task, or owning a vehicle, or supplying guns to the entire group, should you get a certain rank for that?

 

I can understand that when protraying a platoon or company, someone has the wear the bars or stripes, but shouldn't those guys be just as responsible for cleaning up after the event?

Is it really necessary that the president of the association is also a bird Colonel within the RE group, as I see all around me in Belgium and Europe... In my opinion the president could be just a private while another member portrays the CO, because he's best at that, has the correct knowledge etc...

But in the end every member should be of equal value.

There's a difference between being a member of the board of the association and actually being in the field commanding the troops. I for one would rather see the people that run the legal part of the group not actually deploy into the field. Being good at running the daily business of a group doesn't necessarily mean you're good at portraying an Army high-ranking Officer...

After all RE is a hobby and it's not real Military Life!

 

I have given up RE a very long time ago for several reasons but the one described above was one of them...

 

That being said, you cannot overlook the fact that not only politics have their influence in the RE and Military Vehicle groups... How about love? How many marriages have broken up because of affairs that started between group members or their spouses....

 

I guess in that way, the RE scene is pretty similar to any group, association and society...

 

JOhan

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"Should you"?

 

Let me turn that around on you, John

 

Let's say you and I join a reenacting group. I get some repro fatigues and a drill M1903 rifle, and an old web belt and I bring that to the table

 

You bring your restored jeep, correct rations for three or four guys, a .30 cal machine gun, all your correct gear, and it's your job to make sure all the crap is cleaned up after the event. I've never been in anything more organized than the Boy Scouts but I'll tell you what I know pretty darned well that even though you and I can say "it's everyone's responsibility to make sure you clean up!", that somebody else has to have the job of making sure it was actually done. And that job is a pain in the rump responsibility.

 

So we join, and we both get to be Privates. Does that make sense to you? Don't you think that if you show you're responsible enough to make sure that element works for the group, you might want to be a something higher than a Private? And just maybe you might even deserve it? Your commitment is a little bit bigger than mine

 

Am I suggesting that if three guys brink half tracks, they all get to be Colonels? Hell no John. I think you realize that. Sorry I posted, I'll get back in my place now

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Johan, does your unit really regularly have marriages broken up by affairs between members? I've never had that happen here in the states!

 

I've been in reenacting for many years and I've even been heavily involved in organizing events (albeit small ones) but I've rarely run into severe problems with rank. Here in Florida though, we occasionally have people get incredibly egotistical in their positions and it pisses me off.

 

There's one guy that shows up as a brigadier general. Well, his 'command,' not just guys from his unit but every union soldier on the field, is maybe thirty guys. That's insane. He used to be a Colonel. Then he bumped himself up. He doesn't have a unit. He's just a fantasy general. He was an SNCO in the regular Army, I'm fairly sure he was a ranger, and he's a very good field commander, but his inflated rank way overshadows his abilities as far as my opinion of him is concerned. I even know how to handle a company in the field, hell, most early-war officers had less training than me! But I don't fantasize about being a general officer!

 

I've always been happy with low ranks in my units. I've done field music since I was a little kid and thus have quite a bit of experience in it, so I am still the 'honorary' Fife Major of the local drum corps or something like that. But I only ever did an officer's impression once: when I was doing Topographical Engineers (no EM's/ NCO's to portray). Unfortunately, here in tiny Florida we always have a surplus of senior officers.

 

~TS

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Just from experince the unit I belong to (WWII US) has gone through some growing pains, both before I became a member and since. Initailly my understanding was the unit "Commander" was self-appointed. He was actually a career military officer and some of that bled over into the HOBBY. He really rubbed some of the guys the wrong way with the "My way or the high-way" deal. Apparently he drew mainly from current military doctrine and methods which some of the historians in the unit tried to correct, to no avail.

 

The unit split just before I joined, the new found fredom and a common notion of not wanting to be like it was made for a very positive and constantly improving impression. One mistake I belive was that the individual that led the drive to separate logicly stepped in as "Commander". A veteran reenactor for some 10 years he had connections, knowlege and STUFF and I mean a truck and trailer load of stuff. As a combat infantry unit some of us found it to be a hassel to spend 3 hrs setting up and 3 hrs breaking down at most events. Also the idea of focusing on recruting as many new members as were interesting in joining really brought in a wide spectrum of reenactors some new but hungry to learn, some part-timers, and some in the unexplainable catagory. A core group of reenactors attended the majority of events, developed period training programs and really worked at improving the quality of the impression. Soon things came to a head again between the differing directions and another split occored.

 

Learning from the mistakes of the past the new "club" as we call it now, developed a simple but workable set of by-laws to include a board of directors rather than an individual to make decisions. We hold a formal (but brief) meeting at each event and encourage ideas, gripes and concernes to be voiced. The board is elected on a rotateing basis to prevent any one person or small group from "running the show". New members must be sponsored and that sponsor acts as a mentor. Levels of membership vary which make it easy for those that choose to be "part-time" to particapate, under the understanding that they need to conform to the standards set forth by the active members.

 

As for rank, first and formost "NO BRASS", in relaity if you can have a group that is made up of 50 plus members maybe you should consider a Leutenant, but for a group of 8 or 12 men NCOs would have been in command. On our combat uniforms most of us wear little or no rank. This allows us to change our rank structure at any time. We rotate the command of the squad at diffrent events to allow our members to gain experience in the field.

 

Within our by-laws Class A uniforms are up to the individual as long as they represent a typical uniform for your impression. For example one of our members is in his early 20's and a college student he is totally ok with being a buck private with minimal fruit salad. A couple of other guys are in there late 30s and 40s and go with an impression based on a pre-war regular army enlistment. What we want to avoid is a unit full of Audie Murrphy types. We also encourage individuals to take pride in and research family members who served, so if an idividual would like to fill out their Class As to represent a family feel free. I for one have an uncle that was with C 1/6 of the 2nd Mar. Div. My USMC greens represent him.

 

Baised on my experience I reccomend a simple but workable set of by-laws, a board of directors (or steering committee) and VERY open and frank dialoge amoung your members at every oppertunity. When prospective new members are considered look for like minded individuals who share the groups ideals and goals. I can say thus far the process has worked very well.

 

 

 

just my thoughts

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The way our unit (see gaggle) works is that well we dont have an organization, board members, officers, whatever.

 

It's "Hey there's an event this weekend, lets go as this."

 

"OK we'll need beer."

 

That's our planning; no squabbling, BS elections etc. It works great. Plus we all pretty much get a long and have known each other for years and dont do any recruiting.

That is probably the best governance system that could be devised.

 

The MOMENT there are people elected above others, then unless they are really skilled at human relations, spit will happen.

 

One little trick I learned in management school that works faultlessly is to avoid using the words "you" and "I" in anything written or said.

 

I guess some sensitive people get threatened when that wordage is used.

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Our 101st Airborne unit has by-laws, with elected leadership at the maximum rank of Lieutenant. Everyone else falls into spots under that. Right now our highest rank is SSgt and we usually get about 15 guys for larger events. We have two Lts; one is in Spain on work assignment and the other ebbs and flows with various impressions, which is cool because we all have the freedom to do multiple impressions (which certainly keeps the hobby fresh).

 

Decisions? The most critical decision is finding and staging events. The guy that finds one becomes the CPOC (if he wants the title) for that event; private, specialist, corporal or otherwise. And if a guy in our unit has an event that he's really excited about, we'll do our best to support him and jump in with our resources. This (1) ensures that everyone gets a chance to build an event the way they want and (2) gives the unit a better presence in the Florida WW2 reenacting scene because we're usually running, or contributing to other units', events.

 

New guys start without rank. We generally make recruits participate in a minimum of 3 events before being elected by majority vote into the unit, just to see how he handles himself in the field. Prior military experience helps, but mostly in doing drill and presentation (and for telling great stories around the camp fire after the public has left). Once he's in, he's a private. If he has a military background, we'll certainly take that into consideration, but it's not automatic entitlement.

 

Leadership: the #1 rule is "Love your people". We don't give anyone a hard time about their kit, but we do offer suggestions on how to improve it. All we ask is that there be continuous improvement, or at least an effort to improve, at each event. Everyone does clean-up, regardless of rank. Everyone gets a chance to lead eventually, either a small group at a tactical, or in a public battle, or in deciding how to set up camp, or in organizing things with event coordinators. Since everyone is within a stripe or two of each other, everyone shares the load.

 

We generally have anywhere from 6 to 16 guys at events, including those that just fall in with us at certain events but aren't "official" members of our group. These un-official troopers aren't walk-ons; we know them from other events but for one reason or another they're stragglers looking for a home.

 

I think key to any unit's success is the personalities of the members. Sometimes you have to go along to get along; and if you don't, then it won't be any fun for anyone.

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Well from someone who started a group that got big really fast and than became a political origination really quick it is a nasty thing. Friends become enemies due to some back stabbing to elect themselves a leader of the group. I started a group that shall remain nameless for now, as a corporal with 5 guys. This became a group with a Sgt. a corporal and 10 guys. At this point we lost touch on what the hobby was about, a group of friends first and a reenactment unit second. And became what I dreaded a unit with a 2nd Lt. two Sgt's and two corporals and a few women thrown in...... Bad verry bad.......

 

They waited to have an "organizational" meeting (read kangaroo court) shortly before I was to deploy to the middle east. Where I was informed my services, because they all had their gear and firearms were no longer needed. And thgat I could stay in the group that I started as a private...

 

Apparently that insignia on the shoulder or collar dose odd things to non-military people. They want it. I have been a soldier a long time I avoided it. Am really happy being a private in another unit.

 

Fortunately the exiles from the unit wile I was away started an airborne unit (this was before it was "cool") that I was invited to join upon my return. When offered rank I refused. Gave it a few years We are much better off now. We have been around since 2003 and still going strong.

 

Lessons Learned:

Make no rank permanent, some one one will appoint themselves "dictator for life" that rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

 

Stay flexible, even with side impressions, people have a great tendency to get burned out. That is why we have a partisan sub-unit

 

Put most of the important things up to a vote.

 

Respect the guys that started the unit, yet they are not "gods"

 

Everyone has a voice.

 

AND ABOVE ALL: FRIENDS FIRST REENACTORS SECOND!!!

 

 

My humble 36cents

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Well from someone who started a group that got big really fast and than became a political origination really quick it is a nasty thing. Friends become enemies due to some back stabbing to elect themselves a leader of the group. I started a group that shall remain nameless for now, as a corporal with 5 guys. This became a group with a Sgt. a corporal and 10 guys. At this point we lost touch on what the hobby was about, a group of friends first and a reenactment unit second. And became what I dreaded a unit with a 2nd Lt. two Sgt's and two corporals and a few women thrown in...... Bad verry bad.......

 

They waited to have an "organizational" meeting (read kangaroo court) shortly before I was to deploy to the middle east. Where I was informed my services, because they all had their gear and firearms were no longer needed. And thgat I could stay in the group that I started as a private...

 

Apparently that insignia on the shoulder or collar dose odd things to non-military people. They want it. I have been a soldier a long time I avoided it. Am really happy being a private in another unit.

 

Fortunately the exiles from the unit wile I was away started an airborne unit (this was before it was "cool") that I was invited to join upon my return. When offered rank I refused. Gave it a few years We are much better off now. We have been around since 2003 and still going strong.

 

Lessons Learned:

Make no rank permanent, some one one will appoint themselves "dictator for life" that rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

 

Stay flexible, even with side impressions, people have a great tendency to get burned out. That is why we have a partisan sub-unit

 

Put most of the important things up to a vote.

 

Respect the guys that started the unit, yet they are not "gods"

 

Everyone has a voice.

 

AND ABOVE ALL: FRIENDS FIRST REENACTORS SECOND!!!

My humble 36cents

Seeing as Dirteater101 is one of my squad leaders, I agree 100%!!

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AND ABOVE ALL: FRIENDS FIRST REENACTORS SECOND!!!

 

I could not agree more. When I first got into reenacting, I thought that maybe friends wasn't an issue because I'd get to know the guys in whatever unit I fell in with. I was pretty wrong as I soon realized these were not guys I would ever really be friends with. No beer, no cigarettes, basically way to into the "proper" way of doing things military AKA IT WAS NOT FUN AT ALL.

 

All we had in common was that we liked reenacting WWII, but even then I felt like they weren't as into it as me. They all came from Civil War reenacting, and I strongly think that USUALLY guys who come from Civil War reenacting backgrounds aren't really that into reenacting in general anymore because they've been doing it for umpteen years.

 

So instead I went and found a group of younger guys like me who were as enthusiastic about WWII history as I was and it all worked out. Common interests OTHER than just reenacting is a big part of it.

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I have been in re-enacting since I was 6, going on 33 years now. Been there, done that. I've done events with every major group in the US at one time or another in almost every time period you can.

In all that time, I have belonged only three groups that didn't have political issues. Only one thing was common between the three:

NO RANKS. think.gif

  • One was my family CW gun crew. No problems there, dad called the shots. Literally.
  • Another was a WW2 group out of Georgia, now defunct because of waning interests in the membership and people scattered all up and down the east coast (people like a writer for Osprey vanguard books, a future editor of WW2 magazine, and someone now placed VERY well among the real E/506 vets). We never had ranks, and on those rare occasions that people needed to fill positions, a new guy got picked every time. A couple of guys handled the logistical stuff, that was it.
  • The third is the group I currently do stuff with. We're a living history display outfit, nobody pays any attention to ranks because there's no structure for it. Just set up stuff and have fun and educate the public at the same time.

Seriously, I laugh when I hear of groups where they say, "Oh, we're not rank heavy, our top rank is a E-6 but we have at least ten whole guys..." w00t.gif

Crap! thumbdown.gif That's not even a fire section from WW2! On active duty, my first gig was a platoon leader of a platoon with almost 60 people! Many folks say, "yeah, well, they never had full TO&Es back then due to attrition." True enough, but don't you think it's funny that the attrition argument is only to justify having higher ranks? Just once I'd like to see a group with about 20 guys and nobody there above the rank of PFC with the attrition argument of, "Our leaders keep getting bumped off." Now that's historically accurate!

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Johan Willaert
Let's say you and I join a reenacting group. I get some repro fatigues and a drill M1903 rifle, and an old web belt and I bring that to the table

 

You bring your restored jeep, correct rations for three or four guys, a .30 cal machine gun, all your correct gear, and it's your job to make sure all the crap is cleaned up after the event. I've never been in anything more organized than the Boy Scouts but I'll tell you what I know pretty darned well that even though you and I can say "it's everyone's responsibility to make sure you clean up!", that somebody else has to have the job of making sure it was actually done. And that job is a pain in the rump responsibility.

 

So we join, and we both get to be Privates. Does that make sense to you? Don't you think that if you show you're responsible enough to make sure that element works for the group, you might want to be a something higher than a Private? And just maybe you might even deserve it? Your commitment is a little bit bigger than mine

 

Am I suggesting that if three guys brink half tracks, they all get to be Colonels? Hell no John. I think you realize that. Sorry I posted, I'll get back in my place now

 

OK, call me stupid, but I don't think chores before and after a show should depend on what a guy brings to a show. I can agree that someone who brought a vehicle has maintenance and cleaning to do on that vehicle and that should be his first 'task'. But it isn't because someone has more money to spend on gear, he shouldn't share the responsabilities of the whole group...

 

On the other hand, I agree that someone has to be in charge and has to check if everything has been done the way it should be. 26 years (of which about 6 years as a Basic Training Instructor) in the Military made me realize that...

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In all that time, I have belonged only three groups that didn't have political issues. Only one thing was common between the three:

NO RANKS. think.gif

Amazing what a clipboard can do to a man's personality, ain't it. :rolleyes:

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