Identifying uniforms from laundry marks

[medalcollector]

Does anyone have a database I can use to identify several uniforms I have.

 

Thanks a lot in advance

[ThompsonSavage]

There are a few members on here who run a paid service in which they try and identify marked uniforms for you. Do a quick search and you will find them.

[B229]

Or you can do it yourself for free, thanks to this great site, also put together by a forum member:

 

http://www.wwii-enlistment.com/

[medalcollector]

B229 thank you so very much. I appreciate it very much.

[B229]

You're welcome. Happy to help.

 

Here are a couple of other websites, all free, that I use for this sort of research:

 

https://familysearch.org/search

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi

http://gravelocator.cem.va.gov/

 

Good luck!

[medalcollector]

Thanks so much again. Very helpful.

[medalcollector]

Hi again,

 

I hate to be a nag. But I'm having trouble narrowing down to a single person. For example I have a helmet and liner painted completely white, from 10th mountain. The laundry Mark is v1586. How do I find out the service branches of each person? NARA website lists personnel as enlisted or warrant officers. Doesn't give any other information.

 

Thanks for help

[uplandmod]

All thenumbers on that are on the Nara website are either army or army air corps.

 

LF

[Mountain Troops]

Hi again,

 

I hate to be a nag. But I'm having trouble narrowing down to a single person. For example I have a helmet and liner painted completely white, from 10th mountain. The laundry Mark is v1586. How do I find out the service branches of each person? NARA website lists personnel as enlisted or warrant officers. Doesn't give any other information.

 

Thanks for help

 

You may be expecting more from the laundry mark than is possible. It was never intended to be unique since it consists of the initial letter of the soldier’s last name and the last four numbers in his/her Army Serial Number. There will be many soldiers with the same laundry mark. It was probably meant to let the individual pick out his own gear within a relatively small group, e.g., his own platoon or maybe a few hundred men in a company.

 

Out of curiosity I ran some queries against a database I have listing 31, 804 soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division and its precursor units. There were 2,402 duplicate laundry marks, 186 laundry marks that appeared three times, 13 that appeared four times, and one (S-8291 ) that was repeated five times. Imagine how many times a given laundry mark will appear in a database with more than 9 million records.

 

Having said this, the laundry mark can be a useful tool when combined with other supporting evidence such as rank, unit, etc. There are many unique marks in the database I examined, but you need to know for sure that the item belonged to someone in that limited pool. Remember also that the Army recycled clothing and equipment. We have probably all seen trousers and jackets with multiple different laundry marks stamped on them. The mark on your helmet may have been from someone long before it was painted white.

 

I know you are wondering, “What about V-1586?” Unfortunately, it is not included in the 31,804 listings, which is about as complete a database as is possible to create at this late date.

 

What evidence do you have that your helmet is associated with the 10th Mountain Division? In my 30+ years of researching the U.S. mountain infantry during World War II I do not recall any photos of them wearing white helmets. It could be my aging baby-boomer mind tricking me, but I’m sure it was rare if it occurred.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Michael

[medalcollector]

Mike this is great information. Thanks a lot.

 

The only information that I had it was mountain div was the ebay listing it came from (I know it's hard to trust all the sellers).

 

This helmet and liner are both painted white. Just out of curiosity, which units painted their helmets white?

[tsakers85]

Are officers listed in this data?

[Mountain Troops]

Mike this is great information. Thanks a lot.

 

The only information that I had it was mountain div was the ebay listing it came from (I know it's hard to trust all the sellers).

 

This helmet and liner are both painted white. Just out of curiosity, which units painted their helmets white?

 

I'm pleased that the information was helpful.

 

Unfortunately, many collectors and sellers seem to think anything painted white or made of white fabric is a mountain troop item. That is not the case. There were many items designed for arctic use that were not mountain troop issue. Also as WWII progressed, most of the few all white items used by the mountain troops were eliminated. For example, the first two pattern ski gaiters were white. This worked fine while skiing in snow, but when worn in the field (they would wear the khaki side of the reversible garments out and no white covers) the white gaiters stood out like beacons. That changed with Quatermaster Tentative Specification PQD 175B, dated 2/15/1943. They were khaki canvas intended for better camouflage in non-snowy terrain. When worn with the white uniform, the white ski trousers covered both the OD wool ski trousers and the khaki gaiters.

 

I'm no expert on WWII helmet markings but I am unaware of any units that routinely wore white helmets other than perhaps the MPs, but they had other markings that make it clear who they were and it was not for camouflage. I can tell you that from researching the U.S. mountian infantry for thirty plus years I have seen very few if any show troops wearing white painted helmets. Most of the time they were training in the United States. Safety in combat was not an issue. During the winter, when a white helmet might be useful, they generally wore the ski cap. When they did wear the helmet during the winter, such as during the divisional "D-Series" maneuvers in 1944, the ski parka hood could be pulled over the helmet for both warmth and camouflage. They did wear the helmet, generally just the helmet liner, more in the summer, but then a white helmet would not be needed. During the summer the helmet was good sun protection and useful as protection against falling rock when climbing.

 

In Italy during 1945 they always wore helmets. However, they were in snowy winter terrain only briefly during late January to mid-February. Still, in photos of the Riva Ridge assault and the attack on Mt. Belvedere they are wearing OD helmets. If they did use white camouflage on their helmets it would have probably been temporary paint or, more likely, a piece of white fabric used as a helmet cover.

 

Attached below are two photos showing 10th Mountain Division soldiers in snowy terrain in Italy during 1945. The B/W photo shows the start of a snowshoe patrol by members of Company B, 86th Mtn Inf, on January 10 1945. Note the total lack of camouflage.

 

The color photo is even more telling. It shows soldiers from 1st Bn, 86th Mtn Inf, atop Riva Ridge the morning of February 19 or 20, 1945, shortly after making their night assault up the cliffs of the mountain. At this point they are still on the front line and still in contact with the Germans. It is one of the few photos I know of showing the use of reversible garments in combat. The important part for our discussion is the soldier on the left wearing an OD painted helmet. If there was a time for white camo, this is it.

There are two other options that I can think of for your helmet. The 10th Division was reactivated in 1948 as a training division at Fort Riley, Kansas. Note, however, that this is NOT the 10th Mountain Division. They never used the MOUNTAIN tab or the mountain designation but they did wear the same shoulder sleeve patch. Between 1948 and 1953, over 250,000 men took basic training in the 10th Division. During that time the drill instructors wore white helmet liners that had the 10th Division emblem decal on one side and the regimental number on the other side. These helmet appear on eBay now and then, almost always listed as an “authentic WWII 10th Mountain Division Helmet.” Your helmet could be one of these but I doubt it since you didn’t mention a 10th Division insignia.

 

I suppose it could be a generic drill instructor helmet, but another option, in my mind a more likely explanation, is the helmet was painted after it was surplus for some civilian use. It could have been kids playing army, a Halloween costume, or some more official use such as an ROTC drill team. In my home town, the local VFW group has an honor guard that wears white painted WWII M-1 helmets. Until about 10 years ago one of the helmet liners was nice paper Hawley liner painted with white latex paint. Arrgh!

 

[Mountain Troops]

Are officers listed in this data?

 

Yes, PFCs to commanding Generals.