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Need help identifying this kepi hat


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Hey guys, what exactly do I have here? I'm thinking Civil War or Indian Wars. There is a faint maker's mark on the inside of the hat, extremely faded silver writing but I believe part of it says 'New York'. The crossed cannons are artillery I assume? Any help in identification or general info about this would be appreciated. Supposedly came from the deaccession of a New England museum and that's as much as I know.

 

 

 

 

 

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Steve Rogers

The maker mark looks like Browning, King & Co. If so, the cap dates 1881 or later. They formed in 1868, but only started using that company name in 81/82 according to Bazelon. The cap is not US regulation and does not seem likely for National Guard or fraternal. I would guess possibly a theatrical cap for a play, possibly World War One era set in France. The crossed cannon are US CW style, but possibly reproduction added to enhance it. Are there straight wires on the back? (The new crop of fakes have loops, but the older reproductions/fakes mostly used straight wires.)

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The maker mark looks like Browning, King & Co. If so, the cap dates 1881 or later. They formed in 1868, but only started using that company name in 81/82 according to Bazelon. The cap is not US regulation and does not seem likely for National Guard or fraternal. I would guess possibly a theatrical cap for a play, possibly World War One era set in France. The crossed cannon are US CW style, but possibly reproduction added to enhance it. Are there straight wires on the back? (The new crop of fakes have loops, but the older reproductions/fakes mostly used straight wires.)

 

it is my understanding that model 1872 cap badge would have loops on the back to secure.

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it is my understanding that model 1872 cap badge would have loops on the back to secure.

 

The Civil War hat brass insignia should have soldered brass loops on the back. Stokes & Kirk (known military supplier after the war) made early reproductions of Civil War brass insignia using the original dies. The Stokes & Kirk pieces have wire prongs instead of the loops.

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What I find curious are the two pins that were punched through the breach of the cannons (presumably to attach to the hat). The Stokes & Kirk pieces had the prongs soldered on the back - nothing was ever punched through the front.

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  • 1 year later...

Can anyone help me identify the maker of this kepi? It looks like the last part of the name is "rock & Co." and the location appears to end with "ney." Perhaps someone knows who made this kepi and whether the manufacturer was Civil War or later. Also I know this may seem like a silly question but I have been studying pictures of Civil War officer and enlisted kepis that have no trefoils and no emblems on them and for the life of me I cannot tell the difference between an officer or enlisted cap in these instances. Some people have told me the absence of a chin strap means it was enlisted but there are lots of period photos of privates wearing kepis with chin straps. When there are no emblems or trefoils attached to the kepi, what are the things to look for to tell whether it was officer or enlisted? Thanks for any help that you can offer.

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James Ridabock. He became a partner with James H. McKenney and had controlling interest in the JH McKenney Co. Looks like the last MCKenney ad is in March of 1888. James McKenney was making military goods in 1864 with Laura Baker under Baker and McKenney and advertised in the Army Navy journal extensively until at least 1872. He filed bankruptcy in the early 1880's and was taken over by Ridabock around 1884, terminating in 1888, and I would think your cap dates to that time period. They were making cap cords, army badges, military's goods and cork helmets. This cap may be for a fraternal organization, perhaps a national guard unit of some type, or GAR or a veterans organization. When I first saw it, it reminded me of the Washington artillery, but doubt that is the case with the time period, (you might look into this more though). Good luck, Kevin

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Thank you so much for this wonderful information. Could you help me with the other part of the question as to how to tell the difference between a Civil War officer kepi and enlisted kepi when there are no emblems? I know that Civil War officer kepis would have cloth emblems such as the infantry horn sewn to the front, while Civil War enlisted kepis would have metal insignia, often on the top, but what if there are no emblems? I have studied many photos of Civil War soldiers and officers wearing kepis and except for those rare photos that have the officer kepi with the trefoil lines sewn on, in the many other examples that have kepis with no trefoil and no insignia, I just cannot see any difference between the officer and the enlisted kepi. What am I missing? Thanks again for the wonderful help in identifying the maker name.

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I am not the foremost expert on Civil War Kepi's but do have a number of books on the subject. I think in a number of cases, the officers Kepi is just made better. Maybe a heavier or better cut of wool, silk or satin lining instead of polished cotton, and what is referred to as a bound visor, which is stitched around the edge of the leather. I don't believe there is a hard rule about chin strap vs no chin strap, and believe in most cases both EM and officers caps had them, and again,the officers chin straps were sometimes stitched along the edge. There was a wide variety of caps in the CW that were constructed of different colors for the many Zouave units, privately raised companies and state units. Not all officer Kepi's had the black silk braid. I think there was some ability for officers to choose added extras like this as many of the officers caps were privately purchased. Hope that helps some.

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Steve Rogers

The distinction is more between government supplied issue caps and commercial, privately purchased caps. Officers had to supply their own uniforms, weapons and gear, so unless there was some specific reason to draw an enlisted cap from the quartermaster (the only cap the government contracted for) and pay the fixed cost on it, an officer would purchase his cap from a military goods dealer, haberdasher, or tailor. Pretty much by definition these would be better quality caps than those supplied by the government to enlisted men in terms of quality of materials, workmanship, etc.

Conversely, an enlisted man might purchase a commercial cap for some reason- greater warmth, to look nicer on furlough, etc. But, again pretty much by definition, the cap would be an expense and his ability to wear it might be restricted by orders. He might have more leeway on campaign, on leave, or lounging around camp. He might be far more restricted if a commanding officer was concerned with uniformity in troops as a way of instilling discipline.

So the short answer is, an issue cap is an issue cap whether worn by an enlisted man or an officer, and a commercial cap is a commercial cap whether worn by an officer or an enlisted man.

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  • 2 weeks later...
M24 Chaffee

Quote from Steve Rogers post -"Conversely, an enlisted man might purchase a commercial cap for some reason- greater warmth, to look nicer on furlough, etc. But, again pretty much by definition, the cap would be an expense and his ability to wear it might be restricted by orders"

 

 

In the book "Gone for a Soldier", the memoirs of private Alfred Bellard, Bellard complains about an officer ordering him to take off his commercial cap and only wear the issued cap. This is towards the end of his service after being wounded and transferred to the Veterans Reserve Corp. He even drew a picture of himself wearing the nice commercial cap compared to wearing the ill fitting govt. issued forage cap.

 

 

 

Frank

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