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littlebuddy

 

It sold for 950 dollars in April .......

 

One more picture

 

tuskeg10.jpg

Unless they wore the A9 or A10 version with a JULIET type harness for the mask ?? :wacko:

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Unless they wore the A9 or A10 version with a JULIET type harness for the mask ?? :wacko:

 

Yes that would be a solution in 1942 / 1943 but at the end of the war those had been replaced by the A14 ?

 

Unless I am wrong :wacko:

 

I think we will only find the answer if we see some good pictures

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airborneaviator

Just out of curiosity, why would a heavy bomber crew flying at 25,000 feet be wearing B1 caps instead of B2. It seems like they would get pretty cold wearing a cotton cap

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Just out of curiosity, why would a heavy bomber crew flying at 25,000 feet be wearing B1 caps instead of B2. It seems like they would get pretty cold wearing a cotton cap

 

Hello

 

I don't know but this question also works for crew members wearing A2 jackets instead of B3

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If they were flying at their operational altitude of 30,000ft then shearling clothing over heated suits etc., would be a must. Without it they would quickly die of hypothermia! At lower altitudes on training flights or ferrying flights in warmer climates maybe they could get away with less heavy flight gear. Hollywood has a lot to answer for in this respect. How many WW2 aerial combat movies have there been where the pilot / co-pilot just wear A2 jackets and visor hats with headsets?! :o

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If they were flying at their operational altitude of 30,000ft then shearling clothing over heated suits etc., would be a must. Without it they would quickly die of hypothermia! At lower altitudes on training flights or ferrying flights in warmer climates maybe they could get away with less heavy flight gear. Hollywood has a lot to answer for in this respect. How many WW2 aerial combat movies have there been where the pilot / co-pilot just wear A2 jackets and visor hats with headsets?! :o

I think we need to remember that these guys on the bombers took a bag full of stuff with them. If you look at un-posed photos of crews leaving their bird, they tend to be carrying a kit bag that would have carried things they used in the course of a flight. As Ian points out, things were a lot colder up high. So a crewman on a warm day may have gone to the plane with a cap on and as they got to altitude changed to a helmet, goggles and oxygen mask along with warmer gear, flak suits etc.

 

The reverse took place as they came down from altitude and the heavy gear came off.

 

Watch 12 O' Clock High sometime and pay attention to GeneralSavage when he takes off his crusher cap and puts on his flight helmet and mask. Hollywood got that one right :)

 

Bottom line is just because a guy had a cap on while on the ground does not mean he had it on at altitude.

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doinworkinvans

Watch 12 O' Clock High sometime and pay attention to GeneralSavage when he takes off his crusher cap and puts on his flight helmet and mask. Hollywood got that one right :)

 

Bottom line is just because a guy had a cap on while on the ground does not mean he had it on at altitude.

 

Ding, Ding, Ding!

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An example of what I was referring to with the kit bags etc. Note the mix of hats and the clearly very full bags some of these guys are lugging. This photo was taken December 13,1943 so it's not a summer day. You can bet the gear in those bags was being worn at 25 thousand feet :)

 

 

post-68384-0-41024300-1404753622.jpg

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Another image from a book I've had since I was a kid, which is a looonnnggg time ago :)

 

Note the mix of uniforms and hats. Also note the gunner in just the blue bunny suit. No doubt he was in more than that at altitude. Also note the two guys with their heavy jackets under their arms but still with their harness and mae wests on. Odds are pretty good they changed out of those jackets when they got down lower. One guy is carrying his flight boots. Bottom line is they had time to adjust their gear to fit the need while in flight.

 

 

post-68384-0-71305200-1404753934.jpg

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Thanks for your answers.

 

Now take a look at this video that I am sure most of you have already seen. At 58'15, you clearly see that the navigator is only wearing a A2 jacket (as well as the pilots and co pilots, but I think the cockpit was heated ?), when the gunners wear B3 jackets. How can you explain this ? Maybe he is from Montana and his buddies from Florida :) .

 

Thanks for your help

 

Julien

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0WMZUNQFdo

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Ok...I've just skipped though the film and here's my take on it. It's a documentary. There's actual airborne footage inter-cut with staged stuff filmed on the deck. So, the "studio" shots didn't really require the correct high altitude flight gear...as long as it looked "right" the '40s audience wouldn't differentiate between an A2 and a B3 etc. It's only we collectors who do that! :rolleyes:

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Thanks Ian. I was also wondering about the bombardier aiming at the target with bare hands but it also answers this question.

 

I guess Hollywood movie makers did not imagine that we would still watch there movies 70 years later !

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airborneaviator

According to some quick research the B17 did have heaters in the cockpit and nose, but these heaters were inadequate once at altitude. So my assumption is that they could wear the A2s until they got above, say 10,000 feet?

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I've spent time over the last 20+ years researching a particular bomber crew from the 454th BG operating out of Italy. They were shot down by flak on February 14, 1945. They were a lead crew so they had a couple extra guys on the crew. 5 survived the shoot down and 7 died. I was lucky enough to make contact with the guys still living as well as a number of the families. As such I got access to their photos. I remembered today while thinking about this stuff that some were in flight photos that might illustrate more of what we're talking about.

 

Some are a bit faded but I think still visible enough to be helpful.

 

First one shows co-pilot Lt. Al Brody at the controls of their B-24. Note no gloves, his B-10, crusher cap and earphones. Obviously taken at lower altitude and probably on a practice flight. This is more of the Hollywood shot. Al was killed by the flak burst in the cockpit that brought the plane down.

 

post-68384-0-90508800-1404761124.jpg

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Tail gunner Russ Mars seated in his tail turret. Note the cap and earphones. No oxygen mask. Probably from the same flight and photographer although the photo came from a different source than the first. Russ was able to bail out and survive as a POW. One of the faded photos.

 

post-68384-0-60421900-1404761242.jpg

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Two images taken in the waist of the B-24. One shows bombardier Bob Slyder 'playing' gunner and the other shows radio man Don Bucholz doing the same. Note the guy behind Bucholz and the 50 cal has no gloves. Again no oxygen masks but otherwise dressed for the part in thier A-11 helmets and goggles as well as gloves etc. all suggesting a low alt practice flight. Bob Slyder bailed out to become a POW. Don Bucholz died in the crash.

post-68384-0-69691700-1404761389.jpg

post-68384-0-20782700-1404761403.jpg

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The following two were taken after an operational flight in January 1945. First is Bob Haws the top turret gunner. He bailed out and became a POW. In the background is waist gunner Earle Kulhanek. He died in the crash of the B-24. Note both have B-10s, A-9s, B-6 boots along with their Mae West and chute harness. Bob is wearing his A-11 helmet still and you can see the chord for his heated suit sticking out of his A-9 pants.

 

Also note the kit bags in the background near Earle Kulhanek. Bob is showing the strain in this photo. I was lucky enough to get to meet and know Bob. A heckuva nice man.

 

 

The second photo is of flight engineer Harry Kincaid. Harry did not survive the shoot down either. He's got his cap back on while he does some paperwork post flight. Note the gloves sticking out of the pocket of his B-10.

 

post-68384-0-06714400-1404761699.jpg

post-68384-0-31628600-1404761708.jpg

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littlebuddy

Dan, is that helmet Bob Hawes is wearing not an AN-H-16 ?? or am i wrong ??? (probably am !! :D )

 

LB

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airborneaviator

Excellent photos, is there enough room in the kit bags to carry all of that heavy flight gear?

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Excellent photos, is there enough room in the kit bags to carry all of that heavy flight gear?

 

Must have been. I know this particular crew on an earlier mission had to dump all thier gear out to try and lighten the ship to help them make it back across the Adriatic. They barely made it and belly landed thier 24 just across the coast. Two of the surviving crew when I tracked them down recalled specifically that thier kit bags along with the guns etc were dumped overboard.

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Dan, is that helmet Bob Hawes is wearing not an AN-H-16 ?? or am i wrong ??? (probably am !! :D )

 

LB

Actually Carl, I'm not sure. I figured it was an A-11 that was early production without the production snaps

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