Unusual Technician 4th Grade Variant

[ItemCo16527]

Hi all,

I was scanning my grandfather's pictures from WWII into my computer a month or two ago and came upon a picture of him with a group of his friends. At first glance it was just your normal "buddies" picture until I noticed the T-4 chevrons being worn by his good friend T-4 Raymond Cibula. If you look closely, you will see he is wearing Sergeant's chevrons with the technician "T" sewn on separately. I looked through all of his other pictures, but unfortunately, this is the only photo I have of this odd variant. This is also the only example I've ever seen of the "T" being separate from the chevrons instead of being embroidered or sewn onto the black or navy blue background.

 

I was wondering if any of you have ever seen this before, and if anybody might have an actual example in their collection.

 

P.S. I apologize for the small size of the picture, but I don't own photoshop and my attempts to blow up the picture ruined the quality of it.

[101combatvet]

I have seen rank insignia trimed before.... for example SSG stripes trimed to PFC stripes. I believe the reason that this was done was do to a shortage on hand of the stripes needed.... a very quick fix. I currently don't have any in my collection at the moment.

[Lee Ragan]

In over 30 years of collecting chevrons, this is the first time I've seen this! A neat picture for sure and it only goes to show, that you can learn something new about these pieces all the time. This guy might have been the only one in the whole Army to have done this, but by golly, there it is!

[craig_pickrall]

I've been collecting chevrons for over 30 years too and have never seen this.

 

One thought I had was the T chevrons were approved early in WW2 and replaced the unauthorized specialist chevrons. It may have been that some enterprising maker came up with just the T and it was used to convert existing chevrons to the new grades until such time the supply system caught up with the need.

[101combatvet]

LOL..... God I wish the Army was that wise.

 

I've been collecting chevrons for over 30 years too and have never seen this.

 

One thought I had was the T chevrons were approved early in WW2 and replaced the unauthorized specialist chevrons. It may have been that some enterprising maker came up with just the T and it was used to convert existing chevrons to the new grades until such time the supply system caught up with the need.

[ItemCo16527]

I've been collecting chevrons for over 30 years too and have never seen this.

 

One thought I had was the T chevrons were approved early in WW2 and replaced the unauthorized specialist chevrons. It may have been that some enterprising maker came up with just the T and it was used to convert existing chevrons to the new grades until such time the supply system caught up with the need.

 

This is actually something that had occurred to me, but you'd think other examples would've turned up either in someone's collection or in a photo somewhere by now. But it's just as likely Mr. Cibula had a stroke of genius and trimmed his insignia down. Unfortunately, he passed away in 1970 so I guess we'll never know.

 

I forgot to mention in my original post that this photo was taken around the Spring of 1945. It wasn't dated on the back, but it's an educated guess as Mr. Cibula is wearing his Good Conduct and EAME Campaign ribbons (their unit didn't make it to England from CONUS until February of 1944).

[craig_pickrall]

Based on that late date then it sounds like he just took a pair of scissors to a standard chevron to make them different.

[ItemCo16527]

In over 30 years of collecting chevrons, this is the first time I've seen this! A neat picture for sure and it only goes to show, that you can learn something new about these pieces all the time. This guy might have been the only one in the whole Army to have done this, but by golly, there it is!

He just might have been, and thankfully Pop saved his photos so we could all see it!

 

Based on that late date then it sounds like he just took a pair of scissors to a standard chevron to make them different.

If that's the case, he came home in a quite unique uniform, probably without even knowing it. I have to admit, it's a really great variation on the Tech chevrons!

[ItemCo16527]

BTT for new members who haven't seen this.

[ItemCo16527]

I forgot to mention that Ray Cibula left the Army as a Staff Sergeant. Thanks for looking!

[ItemCo16527]

I just realized I may have made a mistake. It's possible this photo was taken around the Spring of 1944 while my grandfather's unit was still in England prior to them being sent to France in July 1944. 

[patches]

Found another like this, here a Staff Sergeant in Combat who as we see has cut up the standard Staff Sergeant ranks to individual Chevrons and Rocker with the whole affair sewn on his OD Wool Shirt. Unknown GI and unit in Italy, Summer of 1944.

[patches]

4 minutes ago, patches said:

Found another like this, here a Staff Sergeant in Combat who as we see has cut up the standard Staff Sergeant ranks to individual Chevrons and Rocker with the whole affair sewn on his OD Wool Shirt. Unknown GI and unit in Italy, Summer of 1944.

The Close Up

[ItemCo16527]

That's a first! I've never seen something like that before. Thanks for sharing, patches!

 

Edit: It just occurred to me that I had a uniform years back that had Corporal chevrons where the OD chevrons were sewn onto a Navy blue backing. I wonder if his chevrons were like that and he just removed the backing and sewed the chevrons and rocker on without it. Just goes to show, when it comes to WWII militaria, there is no limit to the styles and variations of insignia.

[patches]

3 hours ago, ItemCo16527 said:

That's a first! I've never seen something like that before. Thanks for sharing, patches!

 

Edit: It just occurred to me that I had a uniform years back that had Corporal chevrons where the OD chevrons were sewn onto a Navy blue backing. I wonder if his chevrons were like that and he just removed the backing and sewed the chevrons and rocker on without it. Just goes to show, when it comes to WWII militaria, there is no limit to the styles and variations of insignia.

That's what it is, as the Tech 4 simply cut up his regular ranks and trimmed the T to the quick and sewn it or had it sewn on by itself, same here with this S/Sgt.

[ItemCo16527]

It's entirely likely. We'll never know for 100% certain though.

[patches]

On 10/4/2023 at 11:48 AM, ItemCo16527 said:

It's entirely likely. We'll never know for 100% certain though.

Your talking about the Applique types, yes, it could bee them, or the Embroidered ones on Wool that were trimme

 

These are the Applique type Staff Sergeant.

[ItemCo16527]

That is exactly the type of insignia I was talking about, but I didn't think to post an example. Thank you for posting this! 🙂