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Cloth .30 Army Bandoleers - 1903-1910


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Bonjour.

 

Here's a wreck "bandoleer" The pin was found on the battlefield. It is common to find the edges of the "fox hole" leftover fragment of cloth, cardboard and sometimes the pin. The cartridges are in their clip.

 

 

solcarlus.

 

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  • 7 months later...
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Hello Solcarlus!

 

I did not see your reply until now. That is an interesting bandoleer even in it's current condition. The cut straps catch my eye, because they were excellent sources of lightweight webbing for inventive doughboys. I've seen them turned into shoulder straps to carry the meat can pouch.

 

RC

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

*Sherlock Holmes in "A Scandal in Bohemia"*

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A nice photo (cropped) showing a doughboy of the 167th Infantry (42nd Divison) wearing two 1909 bandoleers:

 

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"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

*Sherlock Holmes in "A Scandal in Bohemia"*

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  • 1 month later...

I had an unopened crate of WW1 WRA 1917 rounds. What I found interesting is that none of the bandoliers had any ID/LOT card in the pouches. Unfortunately the crate sat on a cement (assumption) floor for a long time and water seeped through the wood and metal container and about half of the bandoliers were heavily corroded.

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That crate is still better than any example I've ever seen. Very nice!

-Todd

Currently looking for WWI items, specifically photos of the 116th infantry regiment, and any material related to the USS Olympia.

Always on the lookout for any rations, miscellaneous personal items, pack filler, care package stuffers, knit Red Cross material, and oddball equipment to supplement the Doughboy display.
Have some extras? I help friends fill out their living history kit, and could always use more loaner gear!

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That is a stellar crate! Finding them empty is one thing, but finding them still fully packed is a whole different ballgame. Any history on it? I found it interesting that the crate doesn't appear to have the lot number or the final digit of the year stamped either.

 

RC

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

*Sherlock Holmes in "A Scandal in Bohemia"*

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I don't believe it has a lot number stamped. Next time I'm home where it is stored I'll have to check it out. No history behind it, it was just at an estate sale. The kicker was that there were 3 boxes, 2 WWII and this one. I got there after the start of the estate auction because they said the guns were not being auctioned until 1200. When the auctioneer pointed to the boxes in the corner he didn't mention they had ammo... The first one went for 155, the 2nd for 135, and I was out early on the other two but I wanted the WRA box so I went for it. I won at $125, I thought I paid a little much but was pleasantly surprised when I went over to pick it up and noticed that it was still sealed... the other boxed were like new (maybe Denver, St Louis?) and I suspected that's why they went for more. They were full too. As you can see my box is a little dirty. I think I may have a bandolier with me, they are on brass clips and are dated 1917(?) as I recall. I'll post a pick when I locate it.

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  • 1 year later...

I know this is an old topic, but I just got this model 1903 bandoleer at an auction Thursday night. It is for the Model 1898 ammo manufactured by Remington in 1917. Khaki is very dark now after 99 years of not very good storage, but it's a survivor! Hard to get a good picture of it right now.

 

 

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Unfortunately it's empty. It came in a box lot with a BAR web belt dated 5/1918. I was after the BAR belt and did not pay much attention to the bandoleer thinking it was WW2 issue till I got it home.

 

 

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Hi all,

 

I appreciate the continued interest in this topic!

 

 

I know this is an old topic, but I just got this model 1903 bandoleer at an auction Thursday night. It is for the Model 1898 ammo manufactured by Remington in 1917. Khaki is very dark now after 99 years of not very good storage, but it's a survivor! Hard to get a good picture of it right now.

 

 

 

 

That is a very nice one being that it is 1917 dated; I do not see them anymore.

 

 

 

RC you should pin this so it can be found easily down the road.

 

 

Thank you for the interest, I will if it will be of use to others.

 

 

Here is another one..

 

 

Very nice late M1903-03 example! That is a rare one.

 

RC

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

*Sherlock Holmes in "A Scandal in Bohemia"*

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Thanks for referring me to this hugely informative thread! Here are some pics of my 1918 dated M1909 bandoleer. It appears unissued and does not look like its ever had ammo in it!

Posted Image

 

Sent from my LG-LS995 using Tapatalk

 

 

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Thanks for referring me to this hugely informative thread! Here are some pics of my 1918 dated M1909 bandoleer. It appears unissued and does not look like its ever had ammo in it!

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

 

 

Sent from my LG-LS995 using Tapatalk

 

 

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Hello Friends Over There...

 

 

A young, just married couple acquired , some years ago, a old "village House" in very bad shape in the area of BELLEAU-France.

They intended to refurbish completely this house in order to make them a home from this this heap of stones falling into ruins, as only the external country stones walls deserved to be keeped while all the inside walls, electric wiring and plumbing etc... needed to be removed and replaced by new stuff.

When they demolished the attic ceiling, some items dropped from it , and have a guess what???

These items are know in possession of duly autorized people and duly legally kept.

2labh5g.jpg

WOODS NOW U.S MARINE CORPS ENTIRELY, our lines include now the entire Bois de Belleau. Signed, Major Shearer "Skipper" 5Th Marines, 3rd Bat - June 25th 1918

 

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If anyone has additional information on the above mentioned bandoleers (or corrections) please feel free to post it. And if anyone has examples of these bandoleers please feel free to post them also.

 

I hope this thread will be of interest,

 

RC

 

very interesting thread. I have one question and one integration to offer.

 

The question: all late 1930's and WWII era Ordnance publications I have read always refer to the "M1906" bandoleer, never to the "M1909" bandoleer (but I am not familiar with earlier texts). I don't doubt the change took place in 1909, so why is that?

 

The integration: the type of bandoleer introduced in 1909, while staying substantially as originally adopted, was not used as such till the 1950's: the M1909 (or M1906 as the case may be, using the Ordnance nomenclature) was officially replaced by the M1 bandoleer before WWII. The M1 bandoleer is structurally similar to the older model but is dimensionally a bit different and less weighty (the cotton is usually lighter etc.). The differences were deemed important enough that separate Ordnance drawings were issued for the two types of bandoleers (20-2A-2 for the M1906 bandoleer, D43490 for the M1 bandoleer) and different weights were listed if one or the other was used in M1917 ammunition boxes (1500 cal. 30 rounds packed in the M1906 bandoleer weighted 8 pounds more than in M1 bandoleers). The M1 bandoleer was used indifferently with 8-round clips for the M1 rifle or 5-round clips for the M1903 series rifles.

 

Another change in the bandoleers was the stop to printed lot numbers on the outside. I don't recall the exact date this happened but if my memory serves me well it was relatively early in the interwar period. Subsequently only the printed card inserted in one pocket of each bandoleer remained to identify the ammunition contained in the bandoleer. External printed markings were reintroduced in February 1945.

 

Always keep in mind however that stocks of WWI produced M1906 ammunition were so large they practically lasted the US Army and National Guard till the end of the 1930's, so the new bandoleer specifications adopted saw significant use only at the beginning of the next decade.

 

cheers

Kilroy

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very interesting thread. I have one question and one integration to offer.

 

The question: all late 1930's and WWII era Ordnance publications I have read always refer to the "M1906" bandoleer, never to the "M1909" bandoleer (but I am not familiar with earlier texts). I don't doubt the change took place in 1909, so why is that?

 

The integration: the type of bandoleer introduced in 1909, while staying substantially as originally adopted, was not used as such till the 1950's: the M1909 (or M1906 as the case may be, using the Ordnance nomenclature) was officially replaced by the M1 bandoleer before WWII. The M1 bandoleer is structurally similar to the older model but is dimensionally a bit different and less weighty (the cotton is usually lighter etc.). The differences were deemed important enough that separate Ordnance drawings were issued for the two types of bandoleers (20-2A-2 for the M1906 bandoleer, D43490 for the M1 bandoleer) and different weights were listed if one or the other was used in M1917 ammunition boxes (1500 cal. 30 rounds packed in the M1906 bandoleer weighted 8 pounds more than in M1 bandoleers). The M1 bandoleer was used indifferently with 8-round clips for the M1 rifle or 5-round clips for the M1903 series rifles.

 

Another change in the bandoleers was the stop to printed lot numbers on the outside. I don't recall the exact date this happened but if my memory serves me well it was relatively early in the interwar period. Subsequently only the printed card inserted in one pocket of each bandoleer remained to identify the ammunition contained in the bandoleer. External printed markings were reintroduced in February 1945.

 

Always keep in mind however that stocks of WWI produced M1906 ammunition were so large they practically lasted the US Army and National Guard till the end of the 1930's, so the new bandoleer specifications adopted saw significant use only at the beginning of the next decade.

 

cheers

 

 

Hi,

 

You hit the nail on the head! When I started this thread, I was trying to focus mostly on the 'krag' bandoleers and their iterations, but included a little about the development of what I termed the 'pattern' of 1909 since that is when it was approved according to the reports I located. I do recall looking into some 1920s reports (I was trying to see if there was any reference to the .30-40 krag bandoliers being declared obsolete) which referred to it as the 'M1906', but I personally believe that came about from a misleading decision to refer to it by the pattern of ammunition, and not the actual date of the bandoleer being approved. So it is likely they were trying to refer to the bandoleer in which M1906 cartridges were packed in, but ended up attaching that ammunition designation to the bandoleer.

 

If anyone has further documentation, please feel free to post it so we can figure this out better.

 

RC

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

*Sherlock Holmes in "A Scandal in Bohemia"*

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I know it's a long shot, but still have faith in miracles, so I'll ask: Does anybody have the original cardboard sleeves, 12 clips of period ammo in the brass clips and and original safety pin just lying around collecting dust they'd be willing to discuss selling? Its my hope to fill and complete my bandoleer for a WW1 uniform display.

Many thanks,

Gary

 

Sent from my LG-LS995 using Tapatalk

 

 

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  • 7 months later...

This is my first post, so first, ‘Hello to all’, my name is Alan.

 

I have a very interesting wooden crate of side-opening 30cal bandoliers made in 1913. It was shipped from the Frankford Armory in 1914. The paper tags are intact, the black safety pins are attached.

The bulk of the bandoliers are still folded into the crate. I have only removed three of them. The crate was shipped as 1000 rounds, not 1200, possibly because the crate was shipped to a private citizen. It was shipped to a wealthy landowner in New York, a lawyer, a Yale graduate, from old money. His name and address is stenciled on the crate. It was at that address until recently when the property was sold.

The ammo I have inspected is in reasonable shape, but I wouldn’t fire any of it. Interesting that the top bandolier has faded in color more than the ones inside. I have attached a photo showing the two colors. I also really like the crate construction, side wood handles instead of rope handles as the later crates have.

 

I also have a crate of .45 ACP shipped to the same person at the same time.

 

If you want more pictures, say so and I'll post them as time permits.

 

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One of the bandoliers was opened and some of the rounds are missing. Here's a photo where you can see the hard board silencers sticking up in the empty pouch.

 

Anyway, I hope this is a good first and second post, I have lots of interesting items like this lying around and it's time to start sharing some pictures with you guys.

 

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  • 4 months later...

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