93rd Recon Bn........but when?

[Ron C.]

Sorry........no back, it too was in my patch album.

 

Ron

[patches]

Most likely for the 93rd Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron (Mecz), 13th Armored Division, there was no "93rd Reconnaissance Battalion". Occupation period made I assume.

 

 

Found these others online, it says they are for the 93rd Armored Reconnaissance Battalion.

 

 

[Ron C.]

Most likely for the 93rd Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron (Mecz), 13th Armored Division, there was no "93rd Reconnaissance Battalion". Occupation period made I assume.

 

 

Found these others online, it says they are for the 93rd Armored Reconnaissance Battalion.

 

 

At the time I made up the cards that I mounted them on to put them in my album I tried to shorten anything that I typed on the cards, including limiting it to "Recon Bn"

 

Ron

[tredhed2]

This is a Bundesweher patch for the 10th Armored Div c. 1955. The later ones had a metallic border.

 

The ends are not scalloped and the base is pointed, not rounded.

[Teamski]

This is a Bundesweher patch for the 10th Armored Div c. 1955. The later ones had a metallic border.

 

The ends are not scalloped and the base is pointed, not rounded.

 

 

Now that I didn't know! I didn't realize the Bundeswehr wore patches prior to the woven ones. You learn something everyday! I would love to see if there were any others. Thanks for the ID tredhed2.

 

-Ski

[patches]

Strange huh? Bundeswehr 10.Panzer Division circa 1955, is that 1955 date right? Info states 10.Panzer Division der Bundeswehr formed October 1959. I wonder were the 93rd Recon U.S. tag for this originated?

[Proud Kraut]

I think we talked about the "cut-off" 10th PD patch elsewhere here before.

 

At the first glance, the patch posted by Ron C. looks like a variation of the 10th Panzerdivision patch. The heraldic animal could very well be a "Staufischer Löwe". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_Panzer_Division_%28Bundeswehr%29

 

In fact in 30 years of collecting (and serving) I never came across a variation of the 10th PD patch like this one in post #1. I would tend to a non-Bundeswehr patch but I have learned here: never say never.

This is like a standard 10.Panzerdivision patch looks like. Woven and hand embroidererd variants do exist as well but look quite different to Ron's patch.

 

[tredhed2]

The only period original variation of the US 93rd Cav Recon patch I have seen was a woven (aka BeVo) in a small collection in Sapulpa, OK in the early 80s. That collection had disappeared the following year when I showed up w/ a camera.

 

"c. 1955" give it a couple years either way.

[1SG_1st_Cav]

There is more to the story. Please check page 322 of Stanton's Order of Battle U.S. Army WWII. "93rd Armored Recon Bn [15 Oct 42 Camp Beale, CA] re-designated as the 93rd Cavalry Recon Squadron [Mechanized] 10 September 43, at Camp Beale, CA [assigned to the 13th Armored Division].

 

Also, do a search on eBay and you'll see a new variation for sale. Danny

[tredhed2]

There is a post WW 2 unit hx for the 13th AD. Many of the men of the 93rd are wearing the patch in post #2 on their overseas caps and/or as DIs. The one in post #1 is not depicted. Haev seen them on a couple of 13th AD Ikes worn as DIs.

 

The two patches currently for sale on ebay are reproductions.

[mortaydc60]

I have to agree with Lars on this one. I believe it is for the 93rd. It is a much larger patch than the standard one and may have been worn on the jacket. I have the same patch and that is the ID on the patch when purchased. This is only the second one I have seen and feel it is a nice find. If it was for the 10th why haven't we seen more? Mort

[Jeeper704]

Sometimes they are offered as being tank destroyer related.

 

Erwin

[Ron C.]

Sorry.......now I am confused, is this a U.S. patch or German? The guy I got it from said he was in the U.S. Army and it was one of his patches.

 

Ron

[Proud Kraut]

Sorry.......now I am confused, is this a U.S. patch or German? The guy I got it from said he was in the U.S. Army and it was one of his patches.

 

Ron

 

I think I still owe you an answer on this one. First of all, the facts:

1. The heraldic animal of the 93^rd Cav Recon Squadron is a black panther, spitting fire.

http://www.13tharmoreddivision.org/Quickstart/ImageLib/img730.jpg

2. What we see in post # 1 is a black animal with red tongue and red claws. The patch is custom made (not officially issued) and most likely unworn.

3. The patch is almost certainly not a German Bundeswehr 10^th PD variant. After posting the machine embroidered variants, I have attached a pic of two bullion variants of the Division's patch below.

 

Now my theory. The heraldic animal COULD BE the "Staufischer Löwe". It can be found with dozens of coat of arms of districts and cities in Baden Wuerttemberg, e.g. the district of "Schwaebisch Gemuend":

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F2%2F2c%2FWappen_Landkreis_Schwaebisch_Gmuend.png%2F140px-Wappen_Landkreis_Schwaebisch_Gmuend.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLandkreis_Schw%25C3%25A4bisch_Gm%25C3%25BCnd&h=151&w=140&tbnid=d3PAaBMKK6qOuM%3A&zoom=1&docid=BgR_IL5tKGjuIM&hl=de&ei=oo5jU8SMOfT64QSro4DoDg&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=696&page=1&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=0CHQQrQMwCg

 

or the city "Leonberg": http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonberg

 

So IF this patch is German made, it's not a German military insignia. But it could very well be a "civilian" patch, e.g. made for musicians, clubs, pennants etc., that was used by members of the unit because it looked so similar to their own insignia. Just an educated guess. Maybe there is a total different explanation...

 

Lars

[sjones]

I have an identical one that I bought years ago as a 93 recon Ron.

[mortaydc60]

DITTO to above. mort

[manayunkman]

When was the previous owner in the service ?

[sjones]

I'll add that I never had a real warm and fuzzy feeling about the patch. I kept it as being a 'possible' and was hoping to one day have some light shed on it.

[tredhed2]

W/ Proud Kraut doing all that research for us, I stand corrected as for the "93rd Rcn patch" which started this thread being for a Bundeswehr 10th AD patch. Somehow, someone NOT familiar w/ the number of coats of arms found for cities, towns, and villages throughout Europe could have easily made the initial mistake*** and it snowballed from there (and likewise for the info re: "10th PD" patch variant). And, until I see better documentation to the contrary, expressed as well as Proud Kraut has done, it appears as if he has nailed it down.

 

*** and we all know how many other incorrect IDs have come down the years of collecting.

 

Thanks, Lars!

[WorldWarPatches]

Ron C.'s patch in post #1 is 100% a WW 2 US Army patch. 13TH ARMORED DIVISION - 93rd Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron (Mechanized) I just sold one from a 1943 & 1944 collection that was not added to after 1944.

if you want to see it worn copy & paste the link below and scroll down to look at the images of the grunts, many have it on their caps.

 

 

http://www.13tharmoreddivision.org/page24.html

[WorldWarPatches]

[dpast32]

Sorry Guys, But that one looks exactly like an SSI / Patch that was amongst a 93rd CRS Medic's belongings I have in my collection. It's a relatively small group, but did include a patch exactly like the example above. Guy was decorated for attending unit's casualties under intense German 88mm fire in Hilden, Germany on 16 April 1945. IIRC, he was discharged shortly after the War, so his SSI 'should' have been legitimate. Unless of course he picked it up later on at a reunion or whatever ?

 

Best, dpast32