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mtnman

2 Sides of 2 Different Coins (Wings)

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Thanks for the great comments Cliff and also, I completely forgot that you have that die!

How cool it that!

 

Here is a better close up of the shoulders of the snowflake vs non-snowflake.

 

In the snowflake backed (gilt), the smooth area around the edges is much wider and the details appear

slightly different in the shoulder itself.

 

Also, notice the dip at the top edge of the smooth portion of the shoulder as it runs out to the wing tip.

 

Best, John

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...and on the eighth day, God created the radial engine...

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Here is a full pic of the two together.

post-12439-0-30432500-1398094761.jpg


...and on the eighth day, God created the radial engine...

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ANOTHER INTERESTING STUDY:

 

Hello John,

 

Just for fun I grouped your gold Pilot Instructor wings between Mel's pilot badge and the Link die.

 

Cliff

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2019.gif

 

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Outstanding work gentleman! I am viewing on a phone and look forward to getting the time to view at home. There are objective differences such as the dip in the shoulder which need thought and consideration as to whether a new die was made it seems . Thank you for your time and effort..

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The information and insight you all are sharing is worthy of a book! Great exchanges of intel!

 

For me, the noticeable differences between the two patterns is found between the ribs on the shield. The Amcraft pattern has modest vertical lines running between the ribs...while the Link pattern has rather small distinct horizontal lines between those ribs.

 

Here's a dated, identified and inscribed Link variation:

IMG_5161.JPG


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donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


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Inscribed on the back, "To Capt. L. D. Crawford - April 1929 - From Capt. C. A. Pursley."

 

 

 

 

IMG_5168.JPG


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donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


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russ, that is one beautiful and outstanding wing.


donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifpost-2-0-82042400-1545944020.gifdonation2020.gif

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

 

 

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Russ,

 

I think the badge you have that Captain Charles Addison Pursley (O8012) gave to Lt. L. D. Crawford (Reserve Officer) in 1929 is significant in two ways.

 

Not only was the badge struck from the second die (which may have been made by Amcraft), we can be sure that the die was made prior to 1929.

 

Cliff

post-4542-0-27262200-1398543234.jpg


donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2019.gif

 

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Thank you Cliff, or should I say "Master", because sometimes I feel like Qui Chain Kane...the kid in the old television series "Kung-Fu." Mel is the star in this week's episode; Cliff is the wise old teacher...and I'm one of the students restraining the urge to say, "Yes Master, but..."

 

I've got to tell you, I'm really enjoying this thread! The rare badge images, historical information and willingness to share ideas and perspectives in uncharted research areas is very, very cool! Thank you all!

 

Here's a period image of Lt. Eugene R. Eubanks photographed wearing his WWI style high collar uniform on September 19, 1924. With a loop, I can see the wing on his chest has those small horizontal lines between the ribs on the shield identical to the example I posted above. This is a press-release photo describing Lt. Eubanks participation in the "Free-for-all military pursuit race" at the National Air Races in Spokane, Washington, in 1924.

 

 

IMG_5197.JPG


post-2-0-10415400-1477335312.jpg



donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


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Last week I picked up another wing to add to this thread.

It falls into the Amcraft style that Mel pointed out in the beginning of the discussion.

What is very unique about this one is that it has screw post fasteners on the back.

These narrow type of screw posts are normally seen on 1920's-mid 1930's era collar brass.

It is clearly done by the manufacturer, yet I don't think I have ever seen this on a post WWI wing.

 

John

post-12439-0-84546200-1401021511.jpg


...and on the eighth day, God created the radial engine...

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Back with fasteners.

post-12439-0-82213500-1401021567.jpg


...and on the eighth day, God created the radial engine...

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without

post-12439-0-30214900-1401021596.jpg


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Close up.

post-12439-0-23221500-1401021624.jpg

post-12439-0-19766100-1401021631.jpg


...and on the eighth day, God created the radial engine...

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Beautifully made wing!


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Thanks, I only bought it three days ago.


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Last week I picked up another wing to add to this thread.

It falls into the Amcraft style that Mel pointed out in the beginning of the discussion.

What is very unique about this one is that it has screw post fasteners on the back.

These narrow type of screw posts are normally seen on 1920's-mid 1930's era collar brass.

It is clearly done by the manufacturer, yet I don't think I have ever seen this on a post WWI wing.

 

John

I hate to say this but I don't think that wing is a vintage piece. Looking at how the back is finished and the posts are added does not look right. Also the patina color of the front of the wing does not look right either.


Austin_Militaria

 

 

 

donation2012.gif

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Great discussion Mel!

 

The Link pattern wing badges have always been amongst my favorites.

 

I have four pilot wings in the pattern that you feel is Amcraft and none in what you feel is the Link pattern.

 

As Patrick mentioned, it has always been thought that Amcraft acquired the Link dies in the

mid to late 1920's.

 

Your points about the differences in the two dies now warrants a re-evaluation of the theory, in whole or in part.

 

It is known that the William Link Co was making wings in 1918 in Newark, NJ. I have a Naval Aviator wing that is biographical to 1918,

and is shown with the W Co hallmark (picture below).

 

Also, Link is shown in the 1922 Jewelers Index (image from chicagosilver.com), but in the 1931 Jewelers Index, Link does not appear.

More interestingly, the exact same hallmark is shown in 1931 as being Winter & Co, also of Newark (image from my hard copy 1931 Keystone Index).

 

I wonder if Winter bought Link and maybe sold the dies, since Winter & Co is thought to never have made wings? Using Google Maps, the two companies

were within about four blocks of each other, so they would have been in competion for local business. On the ther hand, maybe Winter worked for Link,

bought the company and moved it, using the same logo?

 

I will take comparison photos in the next few days of my four wings (two are snowflake backed) and post them on this thread to add to the discussion.

 

It would really be great if someone could come forward with a hallmarked wing in one of the above patterns.

Link hallmarked wings are very rare and Amcraft does not appear to have hallmarked/snowflaked their wings till closer to WWII.

 

Great topic and I feel this is only the second inning!

 

John

 

 

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Dusting off a terrific thread started by Mel in 2014, I thought Id offer this W. Link Co. hallmarked wing for discussion. Although the wing does reflect the Link hallmark, it is not a strong hallmark, but it is present. In addition to the hallmark, other factors that I found appealing are the Blancard (Tiffany style) catch, the fantastic jewelers dated inscription, as well as the slight curvature seen from the top view. The strike on the front of the wing is quite strong with the horizontal lines in the shield clearly visible.

 

Perhaps this wing reopens the dialogue on the Link vs. Amcraft on this specific wing with the horizontal lines in the shield.

 

Pete

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Thanks so much Peter, for bringing this Wing to The Forum, I was wondering if the individual who purchased it was going to bring this beauty to the forefront. First of all I want to comment on the curvature of the Wings. I have never seen a Link with the swept curvature to the wing design. This must have been done by the individual jeweler who affixed the post factory Blancard catch. The gentleman probably ordered it through a jeweler who, upon arrival, did the exquisite calligraphy inscription of the date of such renowned significance to the transformation of wing design in US Military Aviation heraldry. I absolutely love the swept-wing configuration, I am thrilled that you were able to pick it up Peter because I know that Wing is safe and sound under good stewardship with a man who is going to take splendid care of the wing. I am on the road right now and look forward to getting a closer look in more detail when I have time, well done sir!

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