KASTAUFFER Posted April 4, 2014 Share #1 Posted April 4, 2014 I have found numerous named Air Medals over the years to POWs held in German POW camps, but this is the first I have owned to an American who was held as an Internee during the war. Since Switzerland was neutral, she was bound to hold combatants as Internee's if they ended up in Switzerland. This group is to the navigator of B-24 41-28711 CT N "Little Sheppard" of the 448th Bomb Group, 712th Squadron. The plane failed to return due to flak and was interned in Dubendorf, Switzerland on July 21,1944. The ID card in this group was issued by the American Consulate in Switzerland. These are fairly rare and look different than the standard ID issued in the USA. This group was recently found un-researched on Ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted April 4, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cperkins501 Posted April 4, 2014 Share #3 Posted April 4, 2014 Very cool. I also have a group named to a B-24 navigator who was interred in Switzerland. His plane suffered engine failure, or all things, as opposed to actually getting shot down. It's exciting to see another one. This really is one of those intriguing elements of history that most people either overlook or don't know about. Nice find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanemono Posted April 4, 2014 Share #4 Posted April 4, 2014 Very interesting. I learn something new almost every day by being a member of this forum.Thanks Kurt. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted April 4, 2014 Sounds cool! You should post it. I have some other groups to Swiss Internee's but they are mostly "paper". In one of them I have his " A Wartime Log" POW diary issued by the YMCA. I also have a couple groups to AAF crewman interned in Sweden. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted April 4, 2014 Here is a couple pics of the plane including one showing her on the ground in Switzerland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted April 4, 2014 Share #7 Posted April 4, 2014 Hi Kurt, I hope you've been doing well. Gorgeous engraving and what an interesting story behind this medal. I honestly didn't know about the "Internees" in Swiss hands during the war. Thank you for this information and for showing us this beautiful and rare piece. Best wishes to you! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLHSS Posted April 4, 2014 Share #8 Posted April 4, 2014 Very interesting. It may be a stupid question, but how were they interned? Was there a camp? Thanks for posting .... Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted April 4, 2014 The Swiss put them up in "camps" and in hotels in Switzerland. Some of the camps were actually fairly bad. The Swiss didn't look kindly on Airmen trying to escape from Switzerland and trying to make it back to Allied lines. They dealt with them harshly. There were different categories of "Internees" depending on how they made it to Switzerland: 1. Internees - crashed a plane in Switzerland. 2. Evadees - Crashed a plane in an Axis country and walked across the border. 3. Escapees - Escaped from an Axis POW camp and walked across the border into Switzerland. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLHSS Posted April 4, 2014 Share #10 Posted April 4, 2014 Thanks for the additional knowledge .. And thanks again for posting! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted April 4, 2014 This is an interesting site with good info: http://swissinternees.tripod.com/ http://forum.armyairforces.com/Swiss-Internees-and-POW-Medal-m132008.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted April 4, 2014 Share #12 Posted April 4, 2014 Masters of the Air covers this facet of the air war well. Basically, Switzerland generally more friendly to the Nazis and only shut off assistance to them (resources, etc.) in the final days of the war. In Swiss hands, you were generally fairly well cared for, and advised not to escape. I forget the man's name, but he wanted to get back to American forces and decided to walk, ultimately giving up. The Swiss did not take kindly to this and put him in one of the worst prison camps I have ever read about, where he slept on feces, lice, and flea ridden straw and was abused in the worst possible ways for weeks by what the book described as Russians. One of the more disturbing things I have read about WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted April 5, 2014 Share #13 Posted April 5, 2014 Great set. It's definitely not a well known part of the war. Unfortunately there are also documented cases where crews decided to bail out over or land in Switzerland to get out of combat. I read a book many years ago written by a B-17 pilot that ended up interned by the Swiss. I can't remember the title, but it was a excellent reference on the topic! JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cperkins501 Posted April 5, 2014 Share #14 Posted April 5, 2014 Masters of the Air covers this facet of the air war well. Basically, Switzerland generally more friendly to the Nazis and only shut off assistance to them (resources, etc.) in the final days of the war. In Swiss hands, you were generally fairly well cared for, and advised not to escape. I forget the man's name, but he wanted to get back to American forces and decided to walk, ultimately giving up. The Swiss did not take kindly to this and put him in one of the worst prison camps I have ever read about, where he slept on feces, lice, and flea ridden straw and was abused in the worst possible ways for weeks by what the book described as Russians. One of the more disturbing things I have read about WWII. I read that exact same account in an old Aviation History magazine. Simply mind boggling that that was allowed to happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted April 5, 2014 Share #15 Posted April 5, 2014 Nice find. Interesting engraving on the Air Medal. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted April 5, 2014 Share #16 Posted April 5, 2014 Great set. It's definitely not a well known part of the war. Unfortunately there are also documented cases where crews decided to bail out over or land in Switzerland to get out of combat. I read a book many years ago written by a B-17 pilot that ended up interned by the Swiss. I can't remember the title, but it was a excellent reference on the topic! JD Donald Miller said the number of these fellows was pretty small. I think he said Hap Arnold might have caused this idea to be more widely held than is true when he or someone stated that it could happen, so must be happening. I don't remember the specifics, but the truth they were able to determine was that the guys that were there, for the vast majority, had little choice, and I think this was backed up by the OSS guy that was there. Forget his name... Now Sweden, on the other hand... The internees there had good jobs and girlfriends that could have been movie stars. Switzerland, for most intents and purposes, sucked for anybody but the Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kai robert Posted May 19, 2014 Share #17 Posted May 19, 2014 Most of the crews who landed in Sweden were sent back to England. They were not supposed to fly again but most of them did, some of them made a second landing here in Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted May 19, 2014 Share #18 Posted May 19, 2014 There was a nice set to a B-17 pilot that just sold on eBay yesterday to a internee in Switzerland. Hopefully someone here picked it up. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted May 19, 2014 49dani49 was the high bidder . I was the # 2 bidder, but didnt follow up with a snipe bid. Based on what was there, I didnt want to go any higher. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katieony Posted May 19, 2014 Share #20 Posted May 19, 2014 Kurt, Very nice group! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorsairAce Posted May 19, 2014 Share #21 Posted May 19, 2014 Were internees from Germany and US kept in the same camps in Switzerland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted May 19, 2014 Share #22 Posted May 19, 2014 49dani49 was the high bidder . I was the # 2 bidder, but didnt follow up with a snipe bid. Based on what was there, I didnt want to go any higher. Kurt I don't blame you. Most of the YMCA log was not filled out, and the flight jacket was a private purchase style B-15. I would say even post war. The letters and log held all the value. Still a decent little group to a rarely seen Swiss internee. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted May 20, 2014 Share #23 Posted May 20, 2014 Were internees from Germany and US kept in the same camps in Switzerland? From what I have read, not at all. I believe the Germans got preferential treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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