1850's Ames militia NCO sword

[Bob Hudson]

Picked this up today. As best I can determine it is an 1850's Ames sword used by NCO's in militias. The grip is bone, the scabbard is brass and it appears to have lots of traces of gold wash. The blade is 26 inches long and the overall length is 32 inches.

 

 

Swords of this general style were also used by various lodges and fraternal organizations of the era and those would have organization-specific etchings or designs.

 

This one has military designs including an eagle with E Pluribus Unum written above it. The Ames name is needle etched in a fine script on the blade's ricasso and because it's hidden by the shell guard it's a bear to see or photograph. It says:

 

Ames Mfg Co

Chicopee Mass

A sword with these blade markings is shown at http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?104816-Early-Ames-And-Other-s-Militia-NCO-Patterns&p=1164770#post1164770

 

Here's an old photo of a sergeant wearing one of these.

 

 

 

This is about as good as I can get on the Ames name:

 

[Bob Hudson]

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[Terry K.]

Very nice Bob. Not often found with any blade embelishments or any maker marks. Nice find! One of the best I have seen and I have had or seen a hundred at least.

[YankeeSpirit76]

Sweet!

[Bob Hudson]

Very nice Bob. Not often found with any blade embelishments or any maker marks. Nice find! One of the best I have seen and I have had or seen a hundred at least.

 

There certainly are a lot of variations of this basic style: the link above to swordforum.com is part of a very long thread that it quite helpful in learning about these.

 

Here's a closeup showingthe remains of gilt on the helmet. You can also see the small dark dots on the grip which seem to indicate this is bone: if it was ivory I would expect long striations.

 

[Bob Hudson]

Here's some more closeups, showing the gold that remains on the brass scabbard and the stippling on the cross guard. This must have looked rather impressive 160 or so years ago when the gilt was 100%.

 

 

 

 

[Bob Hudson]

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[Spathologist]

Didn't Ames stop needle etching their signatures in the 1840s? I know that 1839-dated M1833 sabers are still needle etched, but 1845-dated M1840 sabers are stamped...

[Bob Hudson]

Didn't Ames stop needle etching their signatures in the 1840s? I know that 1839-dated M1833 sabers are still needle etched, but 1845-dated M1840 sabers are stamped...

 

I see online the needle etched signature on some Ames presentation swords dated 1850's-1860's. With the gold wash and blade decoration this was a fancy NCO sword, so maybe it was a presentation piece too.

 

The shallow needle etching was prone to wearing off easily, so that may be why they earlier went to stamping the standard production pieces.

 

On this one, the shell guard protects the signature and the rest of the blade decoration is so nicely preserved that one must presume it was hardly ever taken from the scabbard.

[Horseclover]

The sword as shown points to the 1850s.

 

Hamilton's Ames book is useful in comparing the etching patterns and a 26 inch blade usually no earlier than the 1850s. The older ones with shorter blades as early as the Mexican War era. Tim and I have been discussing these swords for a few years now,

 

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?104816-Early-Ames-And-Other-s-Militia-NCO-Patterns

 

Any images that come up missing I can replace with what I have in several folders. The NY militia man photo from the Time Life civil war series books.

 

There were two recently on the bay but not with the etchng. I have one silverplated with a plated brass scabbard identical in form to the one here. Some of my Ames examples.

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201059282595?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221403297211?

 

A fair number of Ames blades remain in terrific shape. Partly from always in good climates and in their scabbards but also because Ames did such a fantastic job in polishing the blades very bright.

 

That is a very nice etched example and looks to fall in the 1850s bracket. In addendum, one can fall back in dating the signatures to when Nathan (NP) died and the needle etched blade continued into the early 1850s. I have an upscaled Roman helmet hilt officer sword with the same 1850s etch and signature.

 

Cheers

 

GC

[Bob Hudson]

 

That is a very nice etched example and looks to fall in the 1850s bracket. In addendum, one can fall back in dating the signatures to when Nathan (NP) died and the needle etched blade continued into the early 1850s. I have an upscaled Roman helmet hilt officer sword with the same 1850s etch and signature.

 

Cheers

 

GC

 

 

Thanks for that great info. Your swordforum discussion taught me a lot. I'm probably like a lot of people in that when I first picked it up I thought it was some sort of lodge sword, but when you learn the history and start studying the details, you may find something much more interesting.

[Horseclover]

Keep in mind that Ames sold a lot of swords to the Masons and Odd Fellows before the 1872 timelines when social societies really bloomed. The Odd Fellows bough a great number of the 1832 gladius artillery swords with fine etchings. I'll pull up a couple of pictures from both the Hamilton Ames biography and the Marino/Kaplan/Hamilton fraternal book that describe the early Freemasons example of the prettied nco.

 

The military etch though (in my mind) points to a more senior officer alternative in the same vein as the larger Mameluke guard militia swords. As these were not federally contracted, it is hard to say exactly what sales went where.

 

 

 

Charles Norton

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/cwp2003006212/PP/

 

The fellow sitting a South Carolina officer

Enjoy that clam! It is a superb example.

 

Cheers

[Bob Hudson]

 

The military etch though (in my mind) points to a more senior officer alternative in the same vein as the larger Mameluke guard militia swords. As these were not federally contracted, it is hard to say exactly what sales went where.

 

Cheers

 

Anyone know what is the genisis of referring to the type that is subject of this thread as "NCO" swords? Etching and and gilding must have been expensive options even in the 1850's, so it would seem to have been a lot of bling for a sergeant.

[Horseclover]

Yes, if we look back to the nco/artillery/infantry swords of the 1812 conflict era there were short swords made and contracted from Rose and Starr. The Ames sword coming in during the Mexican war kind of bridging a gap but not for federal contracts. There were already the official patterns for the army officers and nco.

 

A gilded and etched sword would have been an option for any private purchase but it is likely that the plain versions being bought for militia use is how we end up with the label. The 26" bladed 1850s is somehow regarded as "regulation" but I know of no federal ordnance decree assigning it to nco. Could it simply have been Harold Peterson's thoughts making it so? I dunno.

 

Cheers

 

GC

[kilgarvan]

Nice Sword!

[SARGE]

 

Anyone know what is the genisis of referring to the type that is subject of this thread as "NCO" swords? Etching and and gilding must have been expensive options even in the 1850's, so it would seem to have been a lot of bling for a sergeant.

 

I think that the NCO label probably comes (partly) from the fact that NCO swords were typically worn in frogs instead of via slings in the manner of Officers swords. Some early helmet pommel swords of this type will be seen with both a frog stud and rings on the scabbard, so one must then decide who wore it and how it was suspended from the belt.

 

I think that the more plain private purchase examples were often marketed as "Sergeant's Swords" in various period catalogs so that is what they were called by sword dealers during the period of use. Of course, one should never say something was "never" done or was done in one way only as there are always exceptions.

 

A nice early pre-war Ames sword IMHO.

[Tim]

A very detailed thread on these is at www.swordforum.com.http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?104816-Early-Ames-And-Other-s-Militia-NCO-Patterns.

There is a lot of WRONG information about these on eBay.

[Horseclover]

A very detailed thread on these is at www.swordforum.com.http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?104816-Early-Ames-And-Other-s-Militia-NCO-Patterns.

There is a lot of WRONG information about these on eBay.

I apologize again for the now missing photos in some of those posts (especially the first few). A reminder to use attachments whenever possible (or at least a host that will last). I had begun that thread to specifically regard the very early Ames swords with quite short blades but it was soon apparent more discussion was invaluable. Tim has contributed immensely in information on these variants and companies.

 

Cheers

 

GC

[sundance]

Is there any definitive way of determining whether a sword like this military or fraternal? Most I've seen have no blade embelishment or makers marks.

[Horseclover]

Truly, it can be hard to determine exactly with post ACW swords of this general type. Between military associations, cadets and bulk buys from lodges, the policy i keep in mind when shopping is blade width and length. The truly fraternal swords of note are what Kaplan, Marino and Hamilton assembled as the current guide/book. Lesser organizations more apt to be buying generic forms, usually with slim and often blades longer than 25"-26". My silver plated Ames with no blade etching quite possibly early fraternal. The guard form is something Tim has spent a lot of time with and even convincing some I would think are later, truly do belong to the 1860s.

 

The Odd Fellows and Freemasons were early Ames customers with both the etched 1832 artillery glaives and adorned bowtie helmet variety early American fraternal.

 

Something I have had on this back burner is the east of the Atlantic use of bowties going back to the 18th century. Then, the fashionable centurion pommels also going back in French fashion of the first empire. It has been a few early British bowtie militia swords that have recently caught my eye. It appears to me that Ames combined both British and French fashion At the same earlier timeline, bowties for fraternal use, so the confusion is muddled earlier than US use. I have not archived this one yet but taken with some salt, may be part of the overall evolution. Ebay 261468229972

 

 

 

There is another currently of Brictish interest but not watched at the moment.

 

Anyway, I tend to be a doubter even when I see the older Ames swords once the blades get slimmer and longer. My shorties are 21", Mexican war era.

 

Cheers

 

GC

 

 

 

 

 

[Horseclover]

Then this one recently listed.

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161302190413?

 

As shown and described in Peterson's bible. I am not bidding on it and congratulate the future daddy.

 

Cheers

 

GC

[Horseclover]

Had a moment to find this one again. Shown here for the evolution of characteristics mentioned earlier. Listed as. Scottish militia, Napoleonic era.

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-SCOTTISH-NAPOLEONIC-MILITIA-FENCIBLE-SWORD-AND-SCABBARD-HUGE-BLADE-/261440205613?

 

One I will be saving more pictures of.

 

Cheers

 

GC