Just when you think you've seen it all

[jmar]

Howdy gang!

I hope you're all doing well and looking forward to spring, and to those of you in the southern hemisphere, a nice autumn!

 

Generally I don't do this, but when I saw these 2 listings on Ebay, I had to add the links. Pics aren't the issue here...the word is greed.

 

I think this might be the worst case of not caring about history or the veteran's legacy...it's all about the buck$

 

The links should tell all:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400687734686

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310918148854

 

 

This is the first time I've seen such a thing. I just can't fathom why anyone would do this.

 

Signing off with a heavy heart,

 

Joe

 

 

[Dave]

The seller is a member here as well as a known author...maybe he can explain?

[History Man]

I think that is a new low for breaking apart medals. The sole reason for the breakup looks to be an attempt to start a bidding war between people trying to keep the set together, disappointing.

 

Philip

 

 

Just found this group which is also being broken apart:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spanish-Campaign-Medal-No-2769-John-Christiansen-4th-Infantry-served-1883-1909-/310915021229?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4863fab9ad

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philippine-Campaign-Medal-No-8383-John-Christiansen-4th-Infantry-1883-1909-/310915023511?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4863fac297

[Snakepuke]

On the British Medal Forum, of which I am also a member, there is a special section in order to prevent split-ups. When a seller split up a group on eBay or any other auction houses of website, and it is seen by a member (who cares) a topic will be started so people who want to keep the group together can contact the seller and try to pursued him to re-list the separate listings into one to keep the group together.

 

But still; I personally think it is a real shame that people split up groups...

[cutiger83]

Why in the world would someone sell a box separate from the medal? It is purely greed.

 

I sure hope the forum member/seller sees this thread.

 

I checked. The forum member/seller has not logged on here in a long time and has no posts. Obviously not someone who really cares about history.

 

....Kat

[jmar]

I think that is a new low for breaking apart medals. The sole reason for the breakup looks to be an attempt to start a bidding war between people trying to keep the set together, disappointing.

 

Philip

 

 

Just found this group which is also being broken apart:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spanish-Campaign-Medal-No-2769-John-Christiansen-4th-Infantry-served-1883-1909-/310915021229?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4863fab9ad

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philippine-Campaign-Medal-No-8383-John-Christiansen-4th-Infantry-1883-1909-/310915023511?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4863fac297

 

Hi Phillip,

 

The real tragedy is the this seller knows better. I agree completely with your assessment, he's trying to bring out the worst in people and then profit from it.

 

Thanks for bring the other group up.

 

Best wishes to you,

 

Joe

[LuftStalg1]

Wow, amazing. I would say we might be in for a sob story but looking at all the hundreds of other items for sale money flow doesn't seem to be an issue. Just looks like another dealer trying to stretch it for all it is worth.

 

I can not fault people for trying to get a dollar for a nickel, I think some people just have that in there DNA. The almighty dollar, I wish I had no use for it at all, but that it a dream as I am no survivalist. : ( Money....money.....money.....the sad truth.

[jmar]

Hi Kat, SP and LS,

 

Hopefully nothing of his will sell, then maybe he might get the message!

 

My best to you all,

 

Joe

[P-40Warhawk]

The ribbon is listed separately too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ribbon-Bar-for-Army-Philippine-Campaign-Medal-Thomas-H-Grubb-51st-Iowa-Vol-INF-/310918153315?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48642a8463

 

As are the Philippine Congressional Medal number 1456 and Spanish War Service Medal number 24526 (the box and ribbon are also listed in separate auctions) both named to Thomas H Stubbs.

[History Man]

I am noticing a very sad pattern when it comes to these auctions...I have found multiple groups being either broken apart or sold separately from their boxes. Here are just a few I have found, I am sure there are more.

 

 

Here is another one being separated from its box AND other medal:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-Philippine-Campaign-Medal-No-23093-MAJ-Fred-Wheeler-4th-CAV-USMA-1878-WIA-/400685511299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4ab7b283

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-Spanish-Campaign-Medal-No-8093-Scarce-Variation-MAJ-Fred-Wheeler-4th-CAV-/400685516398?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4ab7c66e

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-Philippine-Campaign-Medal-BOX-No-23093-MAJ-Fred-Wheeler-4th-CAV-USMA-1878-/400685512264?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4ab7b648

 

 

And another:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philippine-Congressional-Medal-No-1065-1LT-Luther-1st-Colorado-Volunteers-Inf-/310913011140?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4863dc0dc4

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Philippine-Congressional-Medal-No-1065-Box-1LT-Luther-1st-Colorado-Vol-/310913014049?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4863dc1921

 

 

And another:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Army-Cuban-Occupation-Medal-No-663-Fred-Dysinger-Ret-1SG-WWI-31st-INF-Siberia-/310914605393?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4863f46151

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philippine-Campaign-Medal-No-4050-Fred-Dysinger-Ret-1SG-WWI-31st-INF-Siberia-/400686186374?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4ac1ff86

 

 

And another:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cuban-Occupation-Campaign-Medal-No-2215-William-Griffin-8th-Infantry-US-Army-/400686285429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4ac38275

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spanish-Campaign-Medal-No-7166-William-Griffin-8th-Infantry-Issued-on-2nd-Ribbo-/400686284353?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4ac37e41

 

 

And another:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Army-Philippine-Campaign-Medal-Numbered-MNo-7672-Albert-Geldreich-38th-USV-Inf-/400687074877?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4acf8e3d

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spanish-War-Service-Medal-Numbered-13364-Albert-Geldreich-1st-Ohio-38th-US-VOL-/400687092457?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4acfd2e9

 

 

And another:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philippine-Campaign-Medal-No-7021-Daniel-Godfrey-18th-Infantry-CPT-in-WWI-AEF-/310914955859?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4863f9ba53

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spanish-Campaign-Medal-No-2376-Daniel-Godfrey-18th-Infantry-CPT-in-WWI-AEF-/400686319854?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4ac408ee

[dan_the_hun84]

Lame, someone with even a scrap of real interest/passion for the history of the item or its recipient would never do that. I wish there was a an angry face emoticon.

[Javelin4life]

It's sad that people care more about making a couple of extra bucks hoping for a bidding war than keeping a group together. These items have been together for decades, and now due to greed are being cast off into the four winds

[kanemono]

I have a notebook with a list of dealers I will never buy from. This dealer is now on the list.

Dick

[History Man]

Another group...trio being broken from each other, the boxes, and the ribbons:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=grubbs&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_ssn=saw10thpainf&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xgrubb&_nkw=grubb&_sacat=0

[Bruce Linz]

Hello Everyone,

 

I like the rest of you would like to see groups, especially attributed medal groups, stay together. However, the economics of the situation is if no collector will buy the group then it might be time to break it up into smaller, more affordable lots and generate some cash flow.

 

I find it interesting that many of my fellow collectors are quick to want others to spend their money to keep these medal groups together, yet are slow to pull out their own checkbooks and write the check. It's sure is easy to spend other collector's money.

 

So folks here is an opportunity to put your money where your mouth is. As Al Gleim used to say "Bid high, Bid Often"!

 

Semper Fi,

Bruce Linz

[MilitaryWired]

Bruce,

 

Most of us cannot afford to save these groups from being split up. Some people that are not collectors see 10 different medals so they create 10 different auctions... clearly they just don't care, or they are unaware of what they are doing. The seller in question here is a big collector and publisher of military reference books. If anyone should care about keeping groups together, it should be a person like this. I have no problem with people buying and selling military items for profit. However, to split up known groups to make a few extra bucks is a dishonor to the people that earned those medals. This is not what collectors do. This is what people that exploit history do. It is piggish behavior and shows a complete lack of respect for the men and women in uniform.

 

When we can put our money where our mouth is, we do. When sellers like this aim to play on the emotions of people like us that care about preserving history, they lose all credibility. Now we know this person is willing to do unethical things just to make a little extra money. That is what you should find most interesting. Not the fact that we are troubled by this dealers troubling behavior... that is only to be expected of us.

[RustyCanteen]

As Dave said, why don't we pause and allow the seller have a chance to offer an explanation if they wish.

 

I don't like to see groupings broken up any more than you guys (and gals) do, but it happens no matter what I think.

 

RC

[Garth Thompson]

This gentleman has been trying to sell these medals as complete groups for some time without any takers. Maybe this man who is an experienced collector and has published a lot of reference material just might have some serious personal problems that he needs some money for. You might want to think about that before you start throwing rocks.

Garth

[Kalveni]

There is another possibility with some of the groups being broken, because I note several are unattributable. Even where paired with an attributable medal, a medal that is not traceable relies on the first piece and again, cannot be independently attributabnle to anybody. So perhaps some folks are just ditching their extra medals by adding them to an attributable first medal. Or in the case of that first Philippines Campaign Medal and box, there is nothing and can be nothing but the word of the seller that that medal was given to the stated individual, and in that case we already appreciate the seller's first interest is money, thus putting into question even the seller's word.

[ludwigh1980]

Since this period is one of my primary collecting interests, I have watched this sellers auction for quite some time. I have noticed that many of these groups being on ebay for some time. Some nearly a year and if you look at his past auctions hardly any of them have sold. Looks to be a massive collection that cost a small fortune. These groups don't come free. As a dealer who put out the money to purchase this collection for re-sale I am sure there is much concern about recovering the investment. (not to mention the listing fees on 100 plus items, running consistently) I have noticed a general slowing in this period of militaria and have defiantly felt it when I have gone to sell some of my collection. Some people depend on selling militaria for a living and to have such a massive investment with no return can ruin a person. We owe much to the business of Militaria and its dealers for preserving, help creating a demand, educating, and bringing to the market place many rare things. I know of several instances of families chucking old military items in the dump because they did not know there was any value in them. Though there are some that value history over the monetary value, I can assure you anything truly historic and desirable was not given to me by the family but rather cost me, in some cases, dearly. The vet themselves and then the family felt the items were important to preserve to the point of sale.

Though I myself don't see the monetary purpose of selling a box numbered to a medal separately, I can sure sense some desperation on behalf of the seller.

I have noticed a general slow down on ebay across the board.

By looking at the activity in the Philippine Insurrection section of the forum as compared to say WW2 related postings, I would say this period has a quite a lack of interest and its associated memorabilia is going to suffer value wise.

 

Sometimes I wonder if people collect to preserve history or more for the social gratification and interaction that the hobby creates.

 

Just some random ramblings......

[cutiger83]

I understand what some of you are saying about having to break up groups in order to sell them.

 

However, what is bothering me about this sale is the breaking up of the box with the medal. If someone was interested in buying the medal, then they would need to buy the box too. That to me shows nothing but greed on the seller's part.

 

...Kat

[KurtA]

When you are selling an original and honestly described item, what is wrong with trying to get as much as you can for it????? I can see jacking up the price of bottled water after a major disaster being wrong (and "greedy"). But a collectible?

 

We have some dealer sites where prices are much higher than the norm. Is this greed on their part???? Is setting a reserve (which guarantees the seller a certain amount of $$) on an Ebay auction considered "greed"? Is a colorful description (e.g., rare!, right out of the woodwork!, cannot be upgraded, ) greed too, as it might generate a higher price? You find something cheap at a flea market and sell it for 10 times what you paid for it. Is that "greed"? (You could sell it for much less and still make a decent profit.) How many times do we see something for sale on the Estand at a price that is lowered 4 or 5 time over the next few days until it finally reaches a price where someone will buy it? Was the seller "greedy" to initially try to get a higher price?

 

I, personally wouldn't split a #'d medal and a #'d box. But, it's the seller's box and the seller's medal. He can do whatever he wants with them. Who are we to say he's "wrong"?

[dan_the_hun84]

I understand what some of you are saying about having to break up groups in order to sell them.

 

However, what is bothering me about this sale is the breaking up of the box with the medal. If someone was interested in buying the medal, then they would need to buy the box too. That to me shows nothing but greed on the seller's part.

 

...Kat

 

 

I have to agree, I really don't see any point in separating the medal from the box...makes no sense, who wants an empty box when you know darn well the medal IS out there in someone else's hands? I'm sorry I just cant see it any other way (in this one case) than it being in the least silly...

 

But as another member pointed out, it is his medal and box, and its a free country...for now anyway..

[cutiger83]

Who are we to say he's "wrong"?

 

 

IMO, when someone is an author of history books, a collector of historical items, and is therefore portraying himself as a person steeped in the importance of history, then this is wrong.

 

Breaking up a medal and a box is showing nothing but greed. I am not talking about breaking up a group. I am talking about breaking up an individual historical item. Everyone knows a numbered medal in its' original box is worth more. Therefore, the seller knows he will get more because the collector wants to keep the items together.

[KurtA]

 

 

IMO, when someone is an author of history books, a collector of historical items, and is therefore portraying himself as a person steeped in the importance of history, then this is wrong.

 

Breaking up a medal and a box is showing nothing but greed. I am not talking about breaking up a group. I am talking about breaking up an individual historical item. Everyone knows a numbered medal in its' original box is worth more. Therefore, the seller knows he will get more because the collector wants to keep the items together.

 

The ironic thing is, he may come out with a less overall net "value" if the box sells and the medal doesn't. The box increases the value of that medal by more than $15. Once the box is out of the equation,he's left with a rather common run-of-the mill medal that is far less desirable without the box.