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96th Co. 6th Marines Quantico Oct.22,1917 yardlong


GWS
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I second Teufelhund RE: Kerr slings in France, have seen metal parts come out of the ground in Argonne. Steve McG

 

Here are some...KERR 1914 Buckles

I dont remember from where they came... maybe BW... maybe Argonne

Sorry about that but I dont keep records of all iems found on France's US battlefields.

2cfb3p2.jpg

2drgg3s.jpg

 

Teufelhund

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  • 3 months later...

Hello all,

 

I'm new here and while looking around I found this thread. My great uncle, Walter Wehrle, was in the 96th in the attack on June 6th at Bouresches. He was wounded in the forearm by MG fire. I remember, as a kid, seeing the large gouge the wound left there.

 

Seeing these unit photos made me wonder if he might appear in any of them. I have a few photos of him, one during training, and a few when he returned home, still in uniform and and still with his arm bandaged up. If someone is willing to see if they can identify him in the photos, I could post the pictures I have.

 

Thanks,

Chip

 

Would be interested in viewing those photos of him if possible. Thanks

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just went back to review this thread for additional postings. I too would like to see any more photos of 96th Co. members from around this period, esp. the ones of Walter Wehrle as mentioned by fightn5th. I haven't identified that name to my photo yet, so it would be great to add another name ID'd to the list. Please post. Thanks.

 

Teufelhund--Thank you for the Kerr-sling photos, they answer the question convincingly!

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Apparently in my last post I confused a request from Chip as being posted by fightn5th. Sorry about that. Actually Chip was requesting an ID of Walter Wherle on the pano photo I have posted here. Fortunately for both Chip and myself, another member, 2ndTo None, was able to send Chip a section of the pano photo and he successfully ID'd Walter Wherle. I did not have an ID of Mr. Wherle, so I was able to add to the roster yet another name plus two others unknown to me. Thanks to 2ndTo None again.

Walter Wherle--middle row,center

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Thank you for this clarification GSW

 

BTW , do you have an idea whether TUBB Reagan #122836 96th Co can be identified on the picture... a friend of mine found ( 30+ years ago) his pair of Dog tags at " La Platrière" Bois Gros Jean where the Cy went into reserve on June 17th after the dramatic gas shelling of night of June 14th and was relieved by the 7th Reg of regulars??

Same question concerning MATTSON James #281963, his " Marksman" badge was strangely discovered in the Bois Belleau, near hill 181 where the 96th Co had supposedly never been...

He was transfered to a replacement battalion on June 17th and was killed two months later in a train accident on August 17th probably at Saint Aignan.

T

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Sorry Teufelhund, I don't have either man ID'd on my photo. Interesting to hear about the dog tags and marksman badge, I had not heard of either story previously. You might want to PM 2ndto None on here. He has more of the men in the 96th Co. ID'd than I do. I am familiar with both names as I have looked at the muster rolls multiple times around this period.Right now I have only 61 men identified out of about 264 in the Co. photo. One thing I have learned is how difficult it is to ID someone during this time period. Photographs of "average Joes" were apparently not as common as we think today. I seriously doubt that the average person or his family even owned a camera at this point in time! Unless you have a photo taken around (give or take 5 years or so) the time this one was taken, it is very hard to ID anyone with any degree of certainty. The exceptions are those had a very distinctive face or had many photos taken of them over the years,( ie:Clifton Cates- see top photo-Cates on left). As an example,Gysgt. Fred Stockham (see bottom photo-Stockham on right) was identified for me by another member here who had seen a copy of another 96th Co. photo of him taken at this time and was positively ID'd on it. As far as I know, these are the only 2 photos of him in existence. Even the web page about him receiving the Medal of Honor has no more than a painting, which really bears little resemblence to him. Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I didn't mean it to, but I certainly hope we can ID both of these men in the near future. Thanks for posting this info.

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post-29214-0-02365900-1480981092_thumb.jpgReagan Tubb #122836 was with the 96th Co when the pano photos were taken, but of the roughly 265 men in the Oct 1917 Muster, only 178 men are in the Oct 22, 1917 pano and 212 men in the Schutz Oct 1917 pano. It seems that a number of men were unable to attend the photo shoot, probably because they had duties that prevented them from being there. Tubb died in 1934 so that has made it even more difficult to find his relatives or photos of him.

 

It was by chance that Walter Wehrle 96th Co was ID. His great nephew posted 3 photos of him, pictures he took of pictures of Wehrle that hung in his home many years ago. The one posted of Wehrle laying behind a Lewis Machine Gun at Quantico help narrow down the searching of faces where I was pretty sure I had found him but wasn't 100% sure till I sent the photos to his great nephew and he said yes it was him. The attached photo is cropped from the Nov 1917 96th Co Lewis Machine Gun Platoon pano. Wherle is standing on the right with eyes closed (looks like they were looking right into the sun). The man kneeling on the right is William H Radcliffe, who was KIA Oct 3, 1918.

 

 

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Thanks for the additional photo and information 2ndtoNone. I took a higher resolution photo of Walter Wherle and cropped it. Still too large to post here! Recropped even more, but no go. I just wish the pano photo I have was clearer, but it is good enough to ID most individuals, IF there are other contemporary photos available for comparison.

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Sorry Teufelhund, I don't have either man ID'd on my photo. Interesting to hear about the dog tags and marksman badge, I had not heard of either story previously. You might want to PM 2ndto None on here. He has more of the men in the 96th Co. ID'd than I do. I am familiar with both names as I have looked at the muster rolls multiple times around this period.Right now I have only 61 men identified out of about 264 in the Co. photo. One thing I have learned is how difficult it is to ID someone during this time period. Photographs of "average Joes" were apparently not as common as we think today. I seriously doubt that the average person or his family even owned a camera at this point in time! Unless you have a photo taken around (give or take 5 years or so) the time this one was taken, it is very hard to ID anyone with any degree of certainty. The exceptions are those had a very distinctive face or had many photos taken of them over the years,( ie:Clifton Cates- see top photo-Cates on left). As an example,Gysgt. Fred Stockham (see bottom photo-Stockham on right) was identified for me by another member here who had seen a copy of another 96th Co. photo of him taken at this time and was positively ID'd on it. As far as I know, these are the only 2 photos of him in existence. Even the web page about him receiving the Medal of Honor has no more than a painting, which really bears little resemblence to him. Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I didn't mean it to, but I certainly hope we can ID both of these men in the near future. Thanks for posting this info.

 

The Marine seen to the right of 2nd Lt. Cates is 2nd Lt. Thomas Lee Brailsford. Brailsford was a graduate of Texas A&M and before the war played semi-professional baseball for the Crockett, Texas volunteers- a team in the Class D East Texas baseball league. On June 6th Brailsford was a liaison agent for the 96th Company's assault toward Bouresches and the supporting fires of the Hotchkiss machine gun crews of the 6th Machine gun battalion. During this advance Brailsford was reported to have "vanished upon the impact of a shell" which instantly killed him.

 

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The Marine seen to the right of 2nd Lt. Cates is 2nd Lt. Thomas Lee Brailsford. Brailsford was a graduate of Texas A&M and before the war played semi-professional baseball for the Crockett, Texas volunteers- a team in the Class D East Texas baseball league. On June 6th Brailsford was a liaison agent for the 96th Company's assault toward Bouresches and the supporting fires of the Hotchkiss machine gun crews of the 6th Machine gun battalion. During this advance Brailsford was reported to have "vanished upon the impact of a shell" which instantly killed him.

 

 

Thanks devildog34. I should have identified Lt. Brailsford or cropped the photo to show only 2nd LT. Cates. In the other photo, of Gysgt. Fred Stockham, the man to his left is Cpl. Stanley R. Williams. I do not know his history after this photo was taken. Any information about him would be appreciated.

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Here is the grave of Thomas Mattson... died in a train accident 2 months after Belleau Wood.

His Marksman Badge has been found neay Hill 181 in Belleau Wood, far away from the 96th sector, but right in the sector of WISE's useless attack of June 10-11.

This Marksman badge was engraved to his name on the obverse side...and considering there was onle ONE Thomas Mattson in the whole 4th Brigade.one can imagine any hypothesis.

Unfortunately I have no picture of same since I was not involved in the discovery.

2nd Lt Thomas Brailsford has been reported death on July 29 but his remains are still missing

5zf96o.jpg

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Brailsford was reported MIA June 6th but not declared dead until July 29. In a sense this date on his headstone is not accurate. He was definitely killed in action June 6th I have the witness statements describing the incident as well as Cates own testimony. He is buried at the Aisne Marne cemetery. I also realized I initially typed Lee as his middle name but it is of course Reed, absent minded today.

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My mistake....Sorry DD34

He rests now at:

Plot A Row 8 Grave 36

 

I will pay a visit to his grave next time I am the vicinity

 

"So long Fellows" was all Brailsford had casually said to his men as he started out across the open field before the village (Bouresches) a cigarette dangling from his mounth.

"We never saw him again" Wolf would say(*)

(*) I will hold , James Carl Nelson

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  • 1 month later...
SgtMaddoxUSMC

I hope you don't mind me sharing this photo on a thread I have started showing lesser seen USMC ranks!

The officers of the 96th Company in your photo are; 1st Lt George B Lockhart, 1st Lt James F Robertson, Captain Donald F Duncan, 2nd Lt John D Bowling, 2nd Lt Clifton B Cates and 2nd Lt Thomas R Brailsford.

Lockhart was transferred in May 1918, Robertson and Bowling were seriously wounded, each twice, and sent back to the states before the war ended. Duncan and Brailsford were both killed June 6, 1918 during the attack on Bouresches. attachicon.gif1st Lt George B Lockhart, 1st Lt James F Robertson, Captain Donald F Duncan, 2nd Lt John D Bowling, 2nd Lt Clifton B Cates, 2nd Lt Thomas R Brailsford 10221917.jpg

 

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SgtMaddoxUSMC,

 

No problem here. To me, if it's been posted on the forum here, feel free to use it. Very informative post by the way!

 

Steve

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  • 1 month later...

Does anyone have an idea as to where the pictures were taken on Quantico?

 

The reason that I ask is that 2/6 is coming up to Quantico in July to do a mess night at the museum. They will be taking a battalion photo but they haven't identified the location yet. The battalion will be staying at Camp Upshur.

 

For those that want to see what the battalion is up to now, do a google search; Decision Time Gazette USMC

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Does anyone have an idea as to where the pictures were taken on Quantico?

 

The reason that I ask is that 2/6 is coming up to Quantico in July to do a mess night at the museum. They will be taking a battalion photo but they haven't identified the location yet. The battalion will be staying at Camp Upshur.

 

For those that want to see what the battalion is up to now, do a google search; Decision Time Gazette USMC

 

I've also tried to figure out where this photo was taken with little success. About the only reference which might have survived is the railroad in the background, the road on the left side and the tree line in the background. I doubt any of the buildings seen in the background still exist, but who knows? I've tried to find a map or diagram of Quantico around this time period with no luck. I'm still not sure which railroad line extended into Quantico at the time, I'd guess that might be the key to this puzzle. My guess is that other company photos were also taken at this spot also, because of the benches used to sit and stand on. Thanks for posting about the July event. If you turn up any clues as to the location, please share them here.

 

Steve

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I've also tried to figure out where this photo was taken with little success. About the only reference which might have survived is the railroad in the background, the road on the left side and the tree line in the background. I doubt any of the buildings seen in the background still exist, but who knows? I've tried to find a map or diagram of Quantico around this time period with no luck. I'm still not sure which railroad line extended into Quantico at the time, I'd guess that might be the key to this puzzle. My guess is that other company photos were also taken at this spot also, because of the benches used to sit and stand on. Thanks for posting about the July event. If you turn up any clues as to the location, please share them here.

 

Steve

 

I'm probably going to have to spend time at the Research Center at MCU. That railroad line is still there but I can't figure out the exact location. I found an article about the trenches written in 2016, I'm waiting on a reply from the Lieutenant that wrote it.

 

Some Lieutenants is 2/6 wrote another article that posted in the Gazette today:

 

Google 'The Decision Room Gazette' and you'll see it on top.

 

 

 

 

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PGN63 - Several years ago on a visit to Quantico, I asked this same question as to where the pano photos were taken. I was told by a very top level historian, that the parade grounds back then was the location. That location is where the Alfred M Gray building is...that general area. The building is also the "Library of the Marine Corps." The RR tracks are still there but the other landmarks are most likely gone. Worth the look though!!

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PGN63-- Here's a website that's got a lot of info on Quantico history, including a map made in 1919. I looked it over again today along with the photo and came to these conclusions:

1. With the railroad behind them, and the sun nearly in their faces, they would be facing east, or southeast or even south, given the date of Oct.22. but not knowing the time of day.

2. The background on the right side looks more like civilian buildings than military. Where the map says "Town of Quantico"

3. The "road" to their left may or may not still exist, it could be one of several on the 1919 map.

4. The photographer would have the Potomac to his back and the men would be between him and the railroad.

Of course, I could be 100% wrong on any or all of these "clues". I've never been to Quantico so I'm just really guessing from what I see on the photo and the info found online.

 

http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/Quantico_Crossroads%20of%20the%20Marine%20Corps_2.pdf

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PGN63 - Several years ago on a visit to Quantico, I asked this same question as to where the pano photos were taken. I was told by a very top level historian, that the parade grounds back then was the location. That location is where the Alfred M Gray building is...that general area. The building is also the "Library of the Marine Corps." The RR tracks are still there but the other landmarks are most likely gone. Worth the look though!!

 

After looking this over again today, I would agree with the historian's opinion of somewhere around the current Library building area. The 1919 map contained in the above link was actually more help than a google map of today, even though some of the notations on it were illegible. Thanks for the info Lenny.

 

Steve

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post-29214-0-61487500-1490228123_thumb.jpgI do not know what camera was used for the 96th Co Oct 22, 1917 pano, but the Schutz panos were taken with a Cirkut camera. These cameras rotate and the soldiers must be placed in an arc in order to have everyone in focus as the camera rotates. If you have one of those panos take a look at the shadows of the men. You will realize then that these guys are not standing in a straight line, though the photo looks as though they are. So the back grounds are not straight either.

This image is the far left side of the 96th Co Machine Gun Platoon pano, Nov 1917 at Quantico. Notice the shadows from the men and the Lewis Machine Gun carts - so the sun is to the left side of them.

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Here is the center of the 96th Co Nov 1917 Lewis Machine Gun Platoon - notice the shadows of 1st Lt James F Robinson in the very front. The sun is almost directly in his eyes.

post-29214-0-05675400-1490228417_thumb.jpg

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and here is the far right side of the pano and the shadows are on the right side of them. The men here are practically looking directly at the men on the far left of the pano.

So the back ground, buildings, trees, RR tracks are not in a straight line, you would see them by standing in one place and turning your head from one side to the other. I hope I have explained it so you get the picture (no pun)!!

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Thanks for the help.....still looking for more.... :)

 

I found an old picture of the Quantico train station, there was a switch that probably lead to where the library is now.......still digging.

 

I spoke to the people on base, the trench line up by the golf course is off limits, they are worried about erosion. The Public affairs Office and Historical Division is also getting involved.

 

I also managed to get in touch with the author of 'To the Limit of Endurance.' He will get in touch with the 78th Company living history unit, they would probably be willing to support this effort.

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