A RC-135 "Combat Sent" Spy plane patch

[Teamski]

Yeah, being a recon crew was anything but a "safe" occupation. The losses of several recon birds during the cold war attest to that! Also, don't forget about the rumors of the recon tie to the shooting down of Korean Air flight 007 by the Soviets.....

 

-Ski

[Bearmon]

It seems odd that the "NEVERMORE" appears on patches with Crows, Crows are the birds normally associated with Electronic Warfare.

https://www.crows.org/ I was an EW in the Navy, so I know Crows are definitely the bird referred too!

 

The Ravens were another group of Air Force personnel in SEA during the Vietnam war who were forward air controllers in Laos. http://www.ravens.org/ So I can't quite figure out why the "Nevermore" is referenced on EW patches!

 

Here is a picture of one of the FAC. Ravens patches from a Vet (through a friend) notice the black beak, all of the Crow patches and references I see have yellow beaks.

 

[Patchcollector]

One of the airplanes, 849 I believe returned from Europe, came back with a 6 foot high "Yosemite Sam" front profile holding 2 six guns drawn in water colors so it could be washed off, the crew had attempted to clean it prior to leaving Mildenhall, but watercolors nonly left a dull stained clear picture, Noseart and Tail codes were not authorized on SAC aircraft (Bomb Comp was the exception) The aircraft had to be sent to Paint Shop at Greenville for an unscheduled paint touch up,(This was the early 80's and and the current hangar was still in the design stages). We were allowed to minor / small touch ups but due to the closeness of the sensor pods Nose U Cheeks, it needed to go to E systems. Anyway it drew the attention (Wrath) of Gen Ellis (CinCSAC) and Gen Light (SAC LG). I am looking to see if I can locate a picture of it. This way of been the same trip the U tangled with MIG's in the Gulf of Sidra.

 

Terry L Horstead

 

 

Combat Sent Interception Gulf of Sidra 1981

 

1980

While operating over the Mediterranean Sea on 16 September 1980, a US Boeing RC-135U Combat Sent reconnaissance plane was fired on by a Libyan fighter. The RC-135 was not hit and the United States took no retaliatory action after the incident. (Wikipedia)

The aircraft operating from Mildenhall (55^th SRW OL-1) diverted & recovered at Hellikon AB, Greece (55^th SRW OL-8), Returning to Mildenhall the following day - TLH

On 21 September 1980, three F-14s from the Kennedy challenged eight Libyan fighters attempting to intercept a U.S. Air Force RC-135 reconnaissance plane two hundred miles from the Libyan coast.^[14] The Libyans disengaged once confronted by the U.S. fighters. (Wikipedia)

 

Terry L Horstead

 

Thanks Terry for the info and stories.I never knew about the Libyan incident.

 

 

Yeah, being a recon crew was anything but a "safe" occupation. The losses of several recon birds during the cold war attest to that! Also, don't forget about the rumors of the recon tie to the shooting down of Korean Air flight 007 by the Soviets.....

 

-Ski

 

I have a book at home called "By any means necessary" by Edward Burrows.It's a great read.I have'nt been able to get very far into it,but from what I've read so far I agree these guys go on very dangerous,top secret missions.

 

It seems odd that the "NEVERMORE" appears on patches with Crows, Crows are the birds normally associated with Electronic Warfare.

https://www.crows.org/ I was an EW in the Navy, so I know Crows are definitely the bird referred too!

 

The Ravens were another group of Air Force personnel in SEA during the Vietnam war who were forward air controllers in Laos. http://www.ravens.org/ So I can't quite figure out why the "Nevermore" is referenced on EW patches!

 

Here is a picture of one of the FAC. Ravens patches from a Vet (through a friend) notice the black beak, all of the Crow patches and references I see have yellow beaks.

 

ravens patch.jpg

 

 

I think that the term "Ravens" and "Crows" is kind of interchangeable amongst the guys in these units.I read in the history of ECM from the "Crow"link that you provided that in WW2 ECM personnel were first known as Ravens,then sometime in the 50's or thereabouts changed to Crows,so technically,both terms are correct.

I found this very cool link that is from Vietnam describing Ravens.In this case,real ones!They even had a patch made up showing one of the Ravens wearing his cast!

The guys on this Nam site are ECM too.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.ourspecialnet.com/ECM-Ravens/Electronic-Countermeasures/

 

 

I'm posting a pic of the patch from the article.Notice that both Ravens and crows are mentioned.

[Patchcollector]

Here is the reference that mentions both terms being applied to AF ECM personnel,taken from the excellent Old Crows website,of which I will also provide a link.

 

http://www.crows.org/about/mission-a-history.html

[Bearmon]

In reference to Early Pre-Vietnam Era EW and EWO's perhaps Ravens was used but not since. The patches being discussed are used later than that.

I would disagree with the terms being interchangeable, they aren't! Ask anyone involved in the EW world!

[Patchcollector]

In reference to Early Pre-Vietnam Era EW and EWO's perhaps Ravens was used but not since. The patches being discussed are used later than that.

I would disagree with the terms being interchangeable, they aren't! Ask anyone involved in the EW world!

 

I was never in a ECM unit so I don't know everything there is to know about them,just what I glean from the web and here,but from what I've been able to find out,the terms "Raven" and "Nevermore" are more or less generic terms related to ECM's,and also used by certain FAC's.

 

The Air Force even had an ECM platform based on an F-111 variant,called the F-111 Raven,or "Spark Vark".

 

Here is a link to some info about that aircraft:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics/Grumman_EF-111A_Raven

 

Also,here is an excerpt from the "Combat Sent" Wiki:

"Mission flight crew: 21-27, depending on mission requirements, minimum consisting of 3 Electronic Warfare Officers (Ravens), 14 Intelligence Operators and 4 Airborne Systems Engineers"

 

In addition,here is an excerpt from the Air Force website,(the entire factsheet I already posted in post #6) "Crew composition includes two pilots, one navigator, two airborne systems engineers, and a minimum of 10 electronic warfare officers, or "Ravens," and six or more electronic, technical, and area specialists."

This factsheet from the official US Air Force website can be found here:

http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/FactSheets/Display/tabid/224/Article/104495/rc-135u-combat-sent.aspx

 

Also,SACTroop in his post # 12 here explains the meaning of "Nevermore"It's a term related to the Martini glass that the Raven(or crow) lays in.

In other words,drinking and too much partying I would guess!

[Patchcollector]

I just found an EXCELLENT website that describes the role of some of these very specialized "spy" aircraft.It is well written,has nice photos,and relates personal experiences without being overly technical.I highly recommend all that are interested in these planes and their missions to take a look:

http://www.rc135.com/0000/INDEX.HTM

 

I took this screenshot from the website above:

 

 

 

 

Notice that "Ravens" are mentioned as being associated with the Air Force RC-135's

[sactroop]

The operators in the back end of the RC-135's were RAVENS. This goes back to the RB-47's at least as early as 1949. They were still RAVENS during Vietnam and after. You'll find RAVEN used thru out the Air Force multiple times both with personal and equipment. Crow, black crow, old crow, are all slang terms that have been used when referring to Ravens. I personally reserve those terms for them to use among themselves.

 

As far as the various patches associated with the 55th SRW you'll find the descriptions jumping between Raven and some form of Crow pretty much interchangeably.

[Bearmon]

This is why I should stay in the Navy area's.......

[TLHorstead]

“Every Crow is a Tiger” (the motto ot the 453^rd Flying Training Squadron from Mather AFB, CA), the 453^rd was responsible for the training of Air Force Electronic Warfare Officers. Upon graduation they could join the “Association of Old Crows”. The EWO’s were assigned mostly B-52’s, B-58’s,EB-66’s and EF-111’s were Defensive Systems Operators, the selected EWO’s further selected for Reconnaissance Squadrons were referred to as “Ravens” and were assigned to RB-29’s, RB-36’s, RB-45’s, RC-47’s, RB-47E’s, K’s & H’s, RB-50G’s, RB-52B’s & C’s in Bomb Bay Capsules (as were used in the -47’s) , RB-66’s, and RC-135’s. With the RB-47’s & RB-52’s the Ravens flew in the capsules on ejection seats that cut their way through the bomb doors. The wing was able obtain Boeing test films, every seat test was a failure as the dummy was decapitated, so once airborne the was no way out of the capsule. At Forbes the 55^th had 3 squadrons of EB/ERB’s (The 38^th , the 343^d , and the 338^th Strategic Recon Squadrons). At Offutt the 38^th flew EC-135’s (Looking Glass) 1966-1970; the 338^th flew RB-47H’s from Offutt in 66 to Dec 67; and the 343^d SRS converted and flew missions with the RC-135C’s until 01 Apr 1979 when the 38^th was Activated and frontend crews (Pilots and Navigators) were transferred to the 38^th and the 343^d was manned with all backend EWO crews.

 

Terry L Horstead

[Patchcollector]

Thanks SACTroop and Terry.You guys have confirmed what I suspected;that the Ravens and Crows labels were interchangeable and that both terms are used in the AF.

[COOKIEMAN]

A theater-made patch, similar to the one at the top of this thread.

[TLHorstead]

The Combat Sent 1 patch is in reference to 63-9792 that was converted to a RC-135V / Block III. The RC-U’s normally operated in the Baltic from RAF Mildenhall, UK evaluating new or modified Soviet Air Defense Radars, however a aircraft was sent to Kadena, Okinawa during Linebacker II (B-52 bombing of Hanoi) to look for and modified Air Defense Radars and what we needed to do to counter them, the U’s also operated in the Med from RAF Mildenhall. In 1981 Libyan MIG’s tried intercept 64-14849 in the Gulf of Sidra. The aircraft recovered in Greece undamaged, The U's operated primarily as a Power Measurement platform as well as a signals interception platform for Air Force Security Service (Later: Electronic Security Command)

 

Terry L Horstead

[TLHorstead]

I debated posting the capability of the Combat Sent mission since these aircraft are still a front line combat aircraft but the book "The KC-135, More Then a Tanker" by Robert Hopkins and reviewed by a former CinCSAC General John Chain, Jr, described the mission.

 

Attached is a photo of 792 when it was still a U Model.

 

I am the "Nevermore" refers to the conversion of 792 to a V model and may of since been issued to crewmembers leaving the 343SRS The drunk crow/raven is the emblem of thr 343rd.

 

Terry L Horstead

[Patchcollector]

These planes sure are interesting.The more I learn about them,the more they fascinate me.I'm sure that their capabilities are being constantly upgraded.

Thanks for the additional information Terry!

[Patchcollector]

I was able to add this Combat Sent RC-135 piece to my collection,so I'm posting it with my other one here.

[Patchcollector]

Back view

[TLHorstead]

Do we have a new cold war heating up? And these youngsters think his is something new, Welcome to the real world. Are Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania still out of Russian/Soviet influence or are new Russian Missile & Radar Sites being elected?. One of the purposes of Rivet Joints was to keep track of the Radar Sites.

 

 

August 2, 2014 --

Washington (CNN) -- The Cold War aerial games of chicken portrayed in the movie "Top Gun" are happening in real life again nearly 30 years later.

A U.S. Air Force spy plane evaded an encounter with the Russian military on July 18, just a day after Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was downed by a suspected surface-to-air missile that Ukraine and the West allege was fired by pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine.

The RC-135 Rivet Joint fled into nearby Swedish airspace without that country's permission, a U.S. military official told CNN. The airplane may have gone through other countries' airspace as well, though it's not clear if it had permission to do so.

The U.S. plane had been flying in international airspace, conducting an electronic eavesdropping mission on the Russian military, when the Russians took the unusual action of beginning to track it with land-based radar.

The Russians then sent at least one fighter jet into the sky to intercept the aircraft, the U.S. official said Saturday.

The spy plane crew felt so concerned about the radar tracking that it wanted to get out of the area as quickly as possible, the official said. The quickest route away from the Russians took them into Swedish airspace. The U.S. official acknowledged that was done without Swedish military approval.

As a result of this incident, the United States is discussing the matter with Sweden and letting officials know there may be further occurrences where American jets have to divert so quickly they may not be able to wait for permission.

Terry L Horstead

[sactroop]

OK kids keep it moving, nothing new to see here.

 

 

[Patchcollector]

Wow,this just goes to show that these Aircraft still fly very dangerous missions,many times over hostile territory.With the recent downing of that civilian airliner,I do not blame the crew for taking evasive action.The RC-135 is a large airframe,and would be a relatively easy target for fighter planes or missiles.

I'm reading the book "By any means necessary" which tells the story of the units that perform these missions,often cloaked in secrecy. Even when they are lost, the public and even the crew members families rarely are told what happened.

[Patchcollector]

I was doing some "web wandering" when I found this photo.I'm also including the caption that goes with the photo.

 

 

 

Here is the excellent site where I found both:

 

http://www.hlswilliwaw.com/aleutians/Shemya/html/shemya-page5.htm

[Patchcollector]

Found another "Combat Sent" piece to add to my collection.Japanese made.

[Patchcollector]

Back view

[sactroop]

Thanks for the heads up! This patch was on the TDY jackets of many Ravens by the mid 70's. You can consider that direct testimony from me.

[Patchcollector]

Thanks for the heads up! This patch was on the TDY jackets of many Ravens by the mid 70's. You can consider that direct testimony from me.

 

Thanks for the info!