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Indian Scout Helmet on eBay

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Happy Sunday all,

These surface so infrequently that I thought I would post it for everyone to see.

 

Out of my pay range but looking is free :)

 

Here's the link in case anyone is interested:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/United-States-Army-Model-1881-Full-Dress-INDIAN-SCOUTS-/331143385869?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d19af130d

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High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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More

 

 

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High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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This appears to be a very nice specimen.

 

I do not know the seller and I mean NO OFFENSE to him/her by this post. He/she may very well be an expert of Indian War militaria.

 

I have a special interest in US Scouts, Indian Scouts due to the lineage between Combat Trackers in VN (of which I was one) and the Indian Scouts. I will suggest to all that the Indian Scout militaria is a very difficult area in which to ensure you are obtaining what you think you are obtaining. The Indian Scout items are rare and therefore ripe for reproduction. I recommend before purchasing Indian Scout items one double checks with a known expert such as Jacques Noel Jacobsen (authored Red Bluecoats and many other articles on Indian Scouts and is Redbluecoats on Ebay). Might also want to check with Ken McPheeters at McPheeters Militaria and/or another known Indian Wars expert.

 

Ken


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Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less."

GEN Robert E. Lee

 

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The scout insignia applied to the center looks like a modern addition to me


Check out my eBay page, I sell military insignia and just about anything else I come across

Link: https://www.ebay.com/sch/fitzkeemilitaria/m.html?item=223497878518&hash=item340982fbf6%3Ag%3ASs4AAOSw-llcxhqe&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

Please check out my web page as well for more items for sale

 

https://fitzkeemilitaria.com/

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I'm not the seller so I have no "dog in the fight".No pun intended Skautdog! :lol:
I just saw it on eBay and wanted to post it here for all to look at.
I don't know much about these helmets,so I'm interested to read the comments left here.Perhaps I can learn something.


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Hey patchcollector.

 

No offense intended. Like you, I don't "have a dog in the fight" either. I just know this is an area one can really get burned in.

 

Can you imagine the sight of 30-40 mounted Scouts in full uniform wearing those helmets? Best I've found out about the only time the scouts really wore a full uniform was at a formal formation. The rest of the time it was apparently kinda sorta a mish mash.

 

FYI for all, the Indian Scouts were US soldiers whereas folks like Kit Carson and others were contractors.

 

Ken


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Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less."

GEN Robert E. Lee

 

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Based on what I see, overall, it looks pretty good to me, but it's highly likely "built" from original parts (as are the vast majority of enlistedman M1881 helmets). I personally don't have a problem with that, as that's the only way to obtain an enlistedman M1881 helmet. As rare as officer helmets are, a non put-together example of one of those is easier to find than a complete actually issued EM helmet. Officer's retained ownership of their helmets when they left the Army. EM's turned theirs in and those helmets went who knows where. Until the early 1970's Stokes-Kirk in Phila had large quantities of original M1881 helmet bodies. They sold them with the plume(yellow or red), cavalry or artillery front plate and side branch buttons for $25. They had no Scout plumes. And they had no cords of any type in stock due to their scarcity( they told me when I visited their store that they could never find cords.)

The key (and almost impossible to find) components of this Scout Helmet are the plume and cords. The leather chinstrap is a bit tough to find also (Stokes-Kirk had none of those in stock either). All the other pieces could be acquired without too much difficulty. A loose crossed arrow pin would be affixed to a staff plate (plate without crossed guns, cannons or swords). Those red/white scout cords would have to be closely scrutinized, as a huge % of the value of this helmet rests with them. (They do look pretty good though)

Kent - I hope you're buying carefully from that Ebay seller you mentioned. Much of his stuff is HIGHLY questionable. Check out his CW Corps badges and WW1 patches......


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Kurt,

Absolutely.

Just mentioned the site as he is recognized as a very knowledgeable individual regarding Indian Scouts. Unfortunately not much is 100%. Wish it were.

Like you, I don't have a problem with "put together" as long as it is all period. I don't know if I ever had an "original" field equipment anything when I was in the Army.

Ken


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Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less."

GEN Robert E. Lee

 

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Thanks for the info gentlemen.I figured that the item was authentic just by observing the number of bidders' and by the price,but was'nt certain until I read the opinions here.

Bidding started at 99 cents and ended at $1,525.01,which seems like a bargain after seeing this plume & socket mount only being offered for 1895.95! :o

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-ORIGINAL-US-ARMY-M1890-USS-INDIAN-SCOUTS-HELMET-PLUME-SOCKET-MOUNT/190861574226?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107083349%26meid%3D5378526334833508822%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D20140107083349%26rk%3D0%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D331143385869

 

I'm going to post the pics of this item too so there will be a future reference on these scarce items

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High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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1 more pic

post-13386-0-02570400-1394426854.jpg


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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This was definitely a real plume--but you can see from just the wrong way the cords are attached that it is a put together helmet. RedBlueCoats--he's a knowledgable guy, but he is not past peddling fakes on ebay either to support his retirement in Florida--as an FYI. I find most militaria dealers have a healthy dose of lying in them.

 

There were a lot of original parts out there because so few indian scouts ever actually had the helmet...

 

v/r

Wolf

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I find most militaria dealers have a healthy dose of lying in them...

Really? Would you like to elaborate?


"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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Not particularly. I don't think the forum has enough space to allow for such an elaboration. Few dealers are completely upfront about everything they have.

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So, for the most part we're all liars?


"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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Really, bugme? I'm sorry you took a post personally. Count yourself among the very few completely honest and upfront militaria dealers. Before we turn this thread into a huge digression, perhaps you could think about whether all of your peers are upfront about their sales. I suppose I'll have to reread those guidelines on tongue and cheek and sarcarsm on the forum.

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This was definitely a real plume--but you can see from just the wrong way the cords are attached that it is a put together helmet. RedBlueCoats--he's a knowledgable guy, but he is not past peddling fakes on ebay either to support his retirement in Florida--as an FYI. I find most militaria dealers have a healthy dose of lying in them.

 

There were a lot of original parts out there because so few indian scouts ever actually had the helmet...

 

v/r

Wolf

 

I believe that it has already been established that the helmet is a "put together"(as are most EM's).Apart from that,what is the point,besides a generalized dealer bashing rant?


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Really, bugme? I'm sorry you took a post personally. Count yourself among the very few completely honest and upfront militaria dealers. Before we turn this thread into a huge digression, perhaps you could think about whether all of your peers are upfront about their sales. I suppose I'll have to reread those guidelines on tongue and cheek and sarcarsm on the forum.

I did not take this personally, I was trying to find where you were coming from since you took a somewhat veiled shot at militaria dealers. Half the Admin's and Moderators here are dealers as well as a great many members of this forum. Some of the best help and knowledge shared here comes from the dealers. Are there less than honest dealers? Sure, but there are a lot more good guys than bad. I know my peers and I know where they stand.

 

 


"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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Well said Bugme.


In memory of Lance Corporal Jeremy S. Lasher, 2nd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force. Killed in Action July 23, 2009, Helmand Province, Afghanistan. Semper Fi

Lance Corporal's 2/8 challenge coin was STOLEN from his grave. Please see the following forum link for details: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/210650-challenge-coin-stolen-from-marine-kia-grave/&do=findComment&comment=1654270

 



My eBay Auctions: http://shop.ebay.com...s/m.html?_dmd=1

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Though my collecting interests are in different areas there are certain items I come across on this forum outside my collecting sphere that I just find beautiful and fascinating no matter the time period, nation, or branch. This is one of those items. Just fascinating. Just casting around the internet a bit here is a link to McPheeter's featuring a 1881 scout helmet that he sold. Not only does it give another nice view of one of these helmets but it also gives some good information on them by an acknowledged expert. Some very interesting stuff in there.

 

http://www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com/07_uniform_hats/07_item_085.htm

 

I look forward to continuing to research info. on these beautiful and rare helmets for my own enjoyment. Who knows someday I may win the lottery! :)

 

Best to all -

 

Bill K.


WTB USMC NAMED GROUPINGS, WWI, WWII (ESPECIALLY 4TH MARINE DIVISION ITEMS) AND UNIS MARKED ITEMS, NAMED INFANTRY DIVISION 4 POCKET CLASS A JACKETS, ESPECIALLY 34th ID AND NAMED GROUPINGS, FIRST SPECIAL SERVICE FORCE ITEMS



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Though my collecting interests are in different areas there are certain items I come across on this forum outside my collecting sphere that I just find beautiful and fascinating no matter the time period, nation, or branch. This is one of those items. Just fascinating. Just casting around the internet a bit here is a link to McPheeter's featuring a 1881 scout helmet that he sold. Not only does it give another nice view of one of these helmets but it also gives some good information on them by an acknowledged expert. Some very interesting stuff in there.

 

http://www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com/07_uniform_hats/07_item_085.htm

 

I look forward to continuing to research info. on these beautiful and rare helmets for my own enjoyment. Who knows someday I may win the lottery! :)

 

Best to all -

 

Bill K.

 

 

That is a nice helmet,and it's great that the dealer was upfront and honest about the cords being reproductions.


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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I've dealt with Ken McPheeter on a number of items. He is as straight and honest as I've dealt with.

 

Ken


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Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less."

GEN Robert E. Lee

 

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