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Doubt about use of collar disc on WWII garrison cap


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Hello.

 

I am having an argument with a friend about the use of a collar disc with the letter US on a WWII garrison cap.

 

 

20140224_171528_zpsadf05f3b.jpg

 

 

He says the US army allowed soldiers the use of the collar disc in the garrison cap, while I insist that the regulations forbid it.

 

He showed me the following photo to support his point of view:

 

 

156aclj_zps41fae688.jpg

 

 

All I found to support my point of view was the Army regulations Nº 600-400 of March, 1944 (with changes made in October 31, 1945) , where it states that War Department employees and civilians working for the US army are authorised to wear the metal letters "US" in the left side of the cap.

 

This means that a normal soldier was not allowed to wear the insignia on the cap, only civilians, which would mean that I am right.

 

What I would like to know is if there was some other regulations that has escaped my search and actually soldiers were authorised to wear the metal collar insignia of the disc and the letters "US" on the cap. Regarding the photo, are those soldiers being decorated civilians? Can civilians have ranks?

 

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

 

Gus

 

 

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439th Signal Battalion

Gus,

 

I am not aware of specific regulations, but here are a few more pictures of soldiers in the 439th Signal Battalion (1945). A couple have the collar disc on their garrison caps.

 

439th027.jpg

 

439th042.jpg

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Thank you very much for your reply and for the wonderful photos you have provided. One thing in common I have seen in photos of soldier using collar discs in their garrison caps is the fact that they are Technicians. I´ll try to investigate in that direction.

 

 

Best regards

 

Gus

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There were "regulations"....and there was what the GIs actually did! The two were often incompatible, but they seemed to get away with it! I've seen WW2 period photos of GIs with just the central device from two-piece collar discs worn on their garrison caps...for example the crossed muskets of the infantry and the winged-prop of the AAF...as indicators of their branch-of-service. Very irregular...but done. Never say never!

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501stGeronimo

There were "regulations"....and there was what the GIs actually did! The two were often incompatible, but they seemed to get away with it! I've seen WW2 period photos of GIs with just the central device from two-piece collar discs worn on their garrison caps...for example the crossed muskets of the infantry and the winged-prop of the AAF...as indicators of their branch-of-service. Very irregular...but done. Never say never!

I agree! The men wore different types of branch insignia on their Overseas caps, from as Sabrejet said, crossed rifles, props, etc.
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I suspect the practice may have dated back to WWI when soldiers were to wear branch insignia on their o/s caps. DUI's were worn until the practice was discontinued in '42 -- by then many units were new and did not have authorized DUIs, it also saved metals and probably helped deny spies valuable info on unit ID. Clearly, some GIs did wear US discs in WW2, but I suspect it was locally authorized or tolerated.

 

G

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Yes, the rational was to save metal. X million brass disks adds up. However, keep in mind that many soldiers had holes in their caps from the use of DUI (screwbacks) pre 1942). As men changed unit, or DUI's were prohibited for security reasons overseas, either the army had to give the guy a new cap, or they could allow them to cover the hole with a disk.

 

.

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Thank you very much to all of you for sharing your knowledge. Your comments have been extremely useful.

 

Best regards,

 

Gus

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I love the picture of the men in front of the truck! There are so many things to see. As has been noted they're wearing collar disks on their hats, and the rule seems to be that you have to angle the hat so that the disk is directly above your nose. They're all wearing harnesses for climbing, so they're most likely out repairing or installing telehone wire. The hood of the truck is labelled "Mr. 5 by 5" and there's a large dachsund standing on it!

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  • 5 months later...

Here's one more example of a U.S. Disc on the Overseas Cap in WWII.

 

post-34986-0-56251300-1409288316.jpg

 

Pfc Ronald Romberger How Company 30th Inf, 3rd Inf Div.

 

 

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gunbunnyB/3/75FA

ive got a few o/s caps from wwII that have unit collar disks (mostly from NG guard units)but some regular army caps, from what i've been able to put together, (which is kinda sketchy to be honest) it seams to me that the NG units which were called up usually could get away with wearing disks more than the reg.army could until late in the war when it seams that a lot of the REG's were sort of overlooked or ignored.-J

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does o/s cap mean officer/service cap?

Overseas Cap, the unofficial term, started in use during WWI, and occasionally used into WWII by the Troops, not really used as a term after WWII. But as we see occasional used by collectors in the present.

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Garrison cap. ;)

Yeah that's what I call them, but to each their own. A friend of mine calls them c**t caps

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  • 1 year later...

post-34986-0-50964100-1444318841.jpg

And just to show another style, the wearing of a Officers U.S. badge on the cap by an enlistedman.

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I have two portraits of the same soldier in the TD Forces.

One shows an officer insignia on his cap, while the other shows him wearing EM's collar discs.

I thought this was interesting enough to post.

 

post-157-0-18667700-1444320568.jpg

 

Erwin

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It is obvious and well known that soldiers wore unauthorized and incorrect uniforms but this was done on leave or on the way home and of course everyone wanted to dress up their uniform to have their picture taken. But you would not dare to wear that stuff to stand inspection, at least more than once. I can pretty much guarantee that the unit in the picture with Gen Devers was authorized to wear the collar disc on their hats by some one. Commanders have the authority to authorize the addition and deletion of all sorts of uniform parts, pocket patches, scarves, hats, awards and the list goes on and they can require the removal of things like name tags that is where the term "Locally Authorized" comes from. I can certainly see the commander of a non-colorbearing unit authorizing the wearing of a collar disc on the overseas hat.

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