Medals at the SOS, common or rare

[Garth Thompson]

While collecting off the internet is pretty easy, Ebay/forum/dealer sites,

There is great value in attending the SOS because you can see the amount of

medals actually available on the market and determine what is really scarce, rare

or just common. Cased unnamed WW2 era Bronze Stars, Purple Hearts, Silver stars and even DSC’s are pretty common and simply don’t justify high prices. WW1 Purple Hearts are readily available. There were plenty of WW2 Army KIA PHs. There was quite a few older plain numbered untraceable campaign medals also. There were plenty of “groupings” which really were bunches of stuff loosely connected to an individual.

Attending the show also gives you the opportunity to do a hands on of the latest repro

techniques. There is also some very rare pieces that turn up and lots of hidden treasure to

find. In my humble opinion most sellers are pricing the commonly found pieces to high and they will not sell. There was a lot that sat on tables for the whole show untouched and went home with the guy that brought them.

Just my observation take it for what it is worth,

Garth

 

 

[Wharfmaster]

Now, with the "net", it is not difficult at all to find out exactly what a given item will actually SELL for. And yet, people still overprice their stuff.

 

Common stuff is common stuff and most collectors know it. Hoping for a bunch of new collectors with little knowledge to sell your high priced common militaria to is a bit unrealistic.

 

Good stuff will always sell if priced at the top going rate or a little less. Both advanced and new collectors resent stupid prices often found on militaria.

 

Sellers have to ask themselves, am I here to sell or just display militaria ? What's the goal of attending ?

 

W

[TRR]

I agree with this observation. There was plenty of times someone told me, "this is what they sell for on ebay" I can understand that a seller may not want to sell someting for half of the sold value on ebay, but even ebay sellers have to pay fees from the sale price which affects value. I think the word ebay has replaced the word auction but it is the same sales tactic. The biggest thing I saw was dealers not willing to negotiate within a reasonable price, I just moved on as there was a lot that were there to make deals.

 

I have taken notice of the amount of "groupings" available. Most seem to be centered around a single named medal or dog tags, which is fine if they were sold that way but it seems they want buyers to believe it was all estate found. I seen my share of items that were at the show last year still priced the same this year.

 

All-in-all it was a great show. I met a lot of great dealers who were willing to share and educate. Some incedible pieces on display as well. I have to say while sitting with a few dealers, there was a lot of buyers passing by some great stuff and never asking a price. Also the normal buyers wanting everything for a dollar or less.

[BEAST]

Interesting observations. I noticed how eBay influenced my buying decisions. As I looked at picking up a few items to use to restore some uniforms. I kept passing on the common items thinking that I can wait and find them on ebay. This meant I spent more time glossing over tables looking for the harder to find items.

[Allan H.]

Most show goers look at the item and the quoted price and then make an offer. Most dealers know this so they price the items higher because they know full well that the potential buyer is going to ask for a better price. The other part of the equation is that the dealer has to drive to the show, pay $100 a table (or close to), pay for the hotel room during the show and other expenses.

 

If you take into account what it sold for on eBay, you need to remember that you are 1) buying an item based on the photo alone, 2) you are paying shipping, and 3) you are waiting until the item shows up in the mail before you can have it in hand. You also need to remember that at shows, if you ask a dealer for your money back on an item, you'll usually get a refund immediately. On eBay, you may deal with no return policies or disputes. You also have other opinions that you can seek at a show whereas on eBay, you're basically on your own to make a decision.

 

There were some ridiculous prices at the show, but there were also some real, honest to goodness, RARE pieces there. The bottom line is that if the seller doesn't want to take your offer, it doesn't make him stupid, he just knows how badly he wants to sell.

 

Allan

[Bob Hudson]

Now, with the "net", it is not difficult at all to find out exactly what a given item will actually SELL for.

 

Since ebay does not allow sales of many of the most sought-after medals, the named Purple Hearts, Bronze Stars, Silver Stars, etc. are much harder to value on the web. I generally try to use the forum's FOR SALE section to at least get an idea of asking prices and sometimes when some of those listings note a medal has been sold, you maybe can assumed it sold for near the asking price.

 

I have a feeling that if those banned medals were allowed to be sold on ebay that they would command even highter prices because of the vast marketplace there (a marketplace that makes this forum and even the SOS, seem quite tiny). But since that marketplace is generally closed to certain medals, it has no influence on prices we can get elsewhere and there's much more guesswork involved.

 

My experience is that dealers at all types of collectibles shows - militaria or otherwise - are often out-of-touch with what people are actually paying for certain types of items and have an unrealistic expecatation of value. How many of the SOS dealers have ever looked at our FOR SALE section, for instance? Not many, I'd guess. I am amazed even at how many collectibles dealers I've met who don't even look at ebay's completed listings for the types of collectibles they deal in. Maybe that's why whenever I go to a show I hear so many dealers moaning about how lousy business is, as they sit there with a table full of the same things they've hauled from show-to-show for a few years, waiting for someone to pay them the price they read about in a book 15 years ago.

[tarbridge]

I agree with this observation. There was plenty of times someone told me, "this is what they sell for on ebay" I can understand that a seller may not want to sell someting for half of the sold value on ebay, but even ebay sellers have to pay fees from the sale price which affects value. I think the word ebay has replaced the word auction but it is the same sales tactic. The biggest thing I saw was dealers not willing to negotiate within a reasonable price, I just moved on as there was a lot that were there to make deals.

 

I have taken notice of the amount of "groupings" available. Most seem to be centered around a single named medal or dog tags, which is fine if they were sold that way but it seems they want buyers to believe it was all estate found. I seen my share of items that were at the show last year still priced the same this year.

 

All-in-all it was a great show. I met a lot of great dealers who were willing to share and educate. Some incedible pieces on display as well. I have to say while sitting with a few dealers, there was a lot of buyers passing by some great stuff and never asking a price. Also the normal buyers wanting everything for a dollar or less.

In the old days...it was...well that is what they bring on Manions...

[dan_the_hun84]

Wow, Manions...that takes me back. My first ever price guide was a from Manions...can't remember the year, probably around 1994-95.

[History Man]

At this particular SOS, I noticed that there was a mix of the good, the bad, and the ugly. I saw a nice selection of period pieces at many tables, while others had a selection of fake engraved medals...mostly from the usual suspects but some that were in a mix of plain janers on people's tables that didn't seem to dabble too much with named examples. Prices ranged from cheap to overpriced, with a very small percentage being what many would consider fair market value...mainly FMV prices or near FMV prices were at medal dealer tables. I noticed a large selection of Army examples with USN/USMC examples being almost non-existent at the show (I was able to find 1 USMC and 1 USN at standard tables, not being with medal "dealers"). I also did not see many people buying medals, I saw people leave with almost 90% of their inventory when it came to medals, with some tables looking like they hadn't sold a thing.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

Philip

[CorsairAce]

I also noticed several sellers who quoted better prices citing they didn't have to pay ebay or paypal fees.

[CorsairAce]

I noticed a large selection of Army examples with USN/USMC examples being almost non-existent at the show (I was able to find 1 USMC and 1 USN at standard tables, not being with medal "dealers"). I also did not see many people buying medals, I saw people leave with almost 90% of their inventory when it came to medals, with some tables looking like they hadn't sold a thing.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

Philip

 

I found 2 great deals on Navy DFCs in short titled boxes, one for under $100. I also got a DSC, DSM, Medal of Freedom, wrap broach Silver Stars, and a named PH. There were definitely some good deals out there to be found.

[Wharfmaster]

We must also remember that BUYERS may also have to spend a considerable chunk of change to attend shows far from their home. After plane tickets, rental car and hotel fees & taxes, they are not going to buy common stuff they can just as easily buy at home or on the net. They are looking for the special items that make their long journey WELL worth it.

 

If you take a few highly desirable items for trade, you may be very surprised at the deals you can make. Emphasis on "highly desirable" great trading stock.

 

W

[Wharfmaster]

Wharf,

As a Dealer...you try to make all your "Buyers" request happen when possible...I had one buyer's request on friday at the SOS...I could not comply with...he purchased a knife from me and asked for a sock to put it in...I told him I only had two socks at the moment and I was using those at the time...

 

As they say, no matter how hard you try, you just can't please everyone. Considering the weather reports, you were smart to hold onto your socks !

 

As a medal collector, I NEVER ask a dealer to give up his socks.

 

 

Wharf

[emccomas]

I did not attend this year. That decision was based on a couple of factors

 

1. The weather forcast

2. I attended last year and found nothing of any real interest.

3. The few things I was interested in were so VASTLY OVERPRICED that I didn't even consider them.

 

Many dealers last year had multiples of the same thing that I have. I am a type collector, not a grouping collector, not a named medal collector.

I also have an interest in United Daughters of the Confederacy Crosses of Military Service.

 

The cased sets I found last year were ones I already had, or in a few cases, significantly overpriced.

The UDC CMS stuff I saw was way way way overpriced. I looked at one CMS medal; the seller was asking $1500 (WWI miniature), and willing to take $1200.

The same medal sold a few months earlier on Ebay for $256.

 

And I asked again about the one medal I cannot locate, a WWII vintage Navy DSM. Apparently there were not any at SOS this year either.

 

So, I am thinking that SOS may not be the best show for a cased type collector. If that is true (and I don't know that it is), what is the best show / forum for locating hard to find cased type medals?

[tarbridge]

I did not attend this year. That decision was based on a couple of factors

 

1. The weather forcast

2. I attended last year and found nothing of any real interest.

3. The few things I was interested in were so VASTLY OVERPRICED that I didn't even consider them.

 

Many dealers last year had multiples of the same thing that I have. I am a type collector, not a grouping collector, not a named medal collector.

I also have an interest in United Daughters of the Confederacy Crosses of Military Service.

 

The cased sets I found last year were ones I already had, or in a few cases, significantly overpriced.

The UDC CMS stuff I saw was way way way overpriced. I looked at one CMS medal; the seller was asking $1500 (WWI miniature), and willing to take $1200.

The same medal sold a few months earlier on Ebay for $256.

 

And I asked again about the one medal I cannot locate, a WWII vintage Navy DSM. Apparently there were not any at SOS this year either.

 

So, I am thinking that SOS may not be the best show for a cased type collector. If that is true (and I don't know that it is), what is the best show / forum for locating hard to find cased type medals?

If there was no other reason other than all the interesting items and people...It is just flat out a Blast...

[TRR]

In the old days...it was...well that is what they bring on Manions...

 

I heard plenty about Manions at the show, I am fortunate never to be a consignor with them. I heard they use to sell a lot of great stuff though.

 

 

 

 

 

So, I am thinking that SOS may not be the best show for a cased type collector. If that is true (and I don't know that it is), what is the best show / forum for locating hard to find cased type medals?

 

I think your key words are "hard to find." SOS is about as good as any show to find what you are looking for, probably a better chance based on the quanity of dealers. Your other choice is to pay whatever the price is when one comes on the market or wait a long time for a cheaper one. Keep looking and asking, hopefully you find one.

[Patriot]

"I looked at one CMS medal; the seller was asking $1500 (WWI miniature), and willing to take $1200.

The same medal sold a few months earlier on Ebay for $256."

 

How can anyone justify such a price? You can purchase a Southern Cross of Honor, NAMED to a good unit for half that price!

[tom2001]

If there was no other reason other than all the interesting items and people...It is just flat out a Blast...

 

Or, as one prominent medal dealer described it to me at the show: "It's a social event for antisocial people."

[MilitaryWired]

I found a couple of state / national guard medals at the SOS for my collection. My favorite medals to see in person though are the lifesaving medals. There was a named gold lifesaving medal for $15,000 and a silver lifesaving medal (can't remember the price). They are gorgeous & I could stare at them all day. I also enjoyed seeing the Gillespie medal. I guess what I am trying to say is, even though I couldn't buy everything I wanted, I really enjoyed seeing some of the "show" items.

[BigJohn#3RD]

I had a great time both selling and buying. I have been doing SOS, when I'm home and not in "Bum$uDk New Egypt", since it started back in the 90s and have always done more or less OK. What I like most about SOS compared to other shows there is a great mix of everything. Most shows big and small seem to have more Third Reich stuff than anything else. SOS has always had a good cross mix of ever era going back as far as the Revaluation period to the the current era and a good mix of prices from $0.50 all the way to $50K and beyond. It is just plain fun to get in so in that big room and see every type and kind of military item under the sun for sale. Some times it is more fun to just talk to collectors/dealers about the militaria they have and share the experience and knowledge. And all it cost is the price of admission. Great Time from beginning to end.

John

[Kalveni]

I think some of the issues are bigger than what was seen at the SOS. I've been a medal collector long enough to have observed that some things you'd wish would change don't while other things moving in one direction have shifted.

 

I've dealt with plenty of dealers who were only marginally aware of the history or research behind the items they were selling. In some cases it seemed they'd owned the items for quite some time. Alas, not everything increases in value. The value of an old coin doesn't increase simply with the years, though I've met with people who think that way.

 

Indeed, some medal values are feeling the economic downturn that began in 2008. Speaking broadly, medals that were X before are in some cases now some fraction of X. The more items tend to be "type" material, or average examples, I think these have taken a measurable hit. I remember sharing beers with the late Canadian dealer Eugene Ursual, and his advice was that excellent material always does well, and while it's typically painful at the time to pay top dollar or more for first rate items, you almost never regret it later as an investment. But take a US Army Mexican Service Medal, numbered and attributable to a Corporal Snuffy in one of the infantry units that saw little or no action: I think these on ebay are seeing only half to two-thirds of what they used to go for. It must hurt a lot if you loaded up on these before and are trying to sell them now. Buying high and selling low can make a dealer pretty taciturn and grumpy.

 

Tastes change is another painful lesson for some, especially if they've held onto items for long periods. It's why a 1967 Corvette sells for more than a Model T. When I was a kid all the really old guys were WWI vets, and that war was very real to me. But now I'm older, and WWI is ancient history. Band of Brothers made WWII vivid and exciting, but sadly you don't see any shows nowadays about doughboys in France to make it as compelling. It's sad, but this is reflected in collecting tastes, or demand. Speaking broadly.

 

Rare doesn't necessarily equate to a blank check. For example, I own a rare piece, a WWII US Army Good Conduct Medal, with the rare ring suspension. It's numbered 56. It was on the cover of JOMSA. Fifteen years ago I bought it for a couple hundred dollars. I do not imagine I will get too much more than that if I sell it.

 

I don't believe it is possible to overestimate the effect of accessible research on medal prices. With medal rolls/books, the Internet and Ancestry.com, it's just so easy to know in minutes what used to take days or weeks of painful research to know. Or it used to be just plain impossible to know more. Mystery pieces had an allure because you didn't know if that Purple Heart you were negotiating for wasn't maybe for the Civil War, or China, etc. Sellers played to that. Now you can quickly determine that that PH was for WWI, to a 1st Division private, who was slightly wounded and went back home to the farm in Ohio. I'm not denigrating any of that, but in terms of rarity, there's other pieces just like that. More and more research is available, often for free, every day. But that's a fairly recent thing. If you're a dealer without the time or interest to research your pieces, and/or you paid more than you should have on pieces you've been sitting on, it's got to hurt to be informed exactly what you've got and how elsewhere it's selling for less.

 

Just some thoughts. -Kevin

[Wharfmaster]

Years ago I loaded up big time on WW2 vintage named Navy, Marine and Coast Guard Good Conduct Medals (cheap) when no one could easily and immediately research them. I assumed someday they would be researchable. However, I did not know if that would be during my lifetime. Sort of a gamble.

 

Now, with all the info available on the net, to include the Muster Rolls, you can imagine how much fun I am having. Many turned out to be very interesting.

 

 

W

[BagmanL6]

Kevin,

I really enjoyed reading your posting. Non-emotional, well thought out and written. Thanks.

[bobgee]

Kevin - Your analysis of the U.S. medal collecting hobby ( and collectibles in general) is IMO spot-on! Great food for thought for anyone interested in spending good money on other peoples "old stuff". Thanks for posting. Bobgee

[JDK]

I agree with everyone else reg Kevin's post. Very well said. I've always lived by the mottos, Buy the best you can afford and you will never be sorry. Quality over quantity.

 

JD