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Soldier with USMC Division Patch and Ribbons


NGCoastArtillery41

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NGCoastArtillery41

I was doing some research into US Army Combat Engineers during WWII and I came across this picture of a Combat Engineer by the name of Anthony Zanghi.

 

What caught my eye is that he appears to be wearing a 2nd Marine Division patch with Navy/Marine Corps 1/2 inch ribbons. I was wondering if anyone else has ever seen another example of this happening?

 

post-151256-0-97829800-1393915250.jpg

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He may haven been in the 23rd infantry. (the Americal Division) they reinforced the 1st Marine Division on Guadalcanal. Some of them wore the 2nd Marine patch to commemorate this. However the ones I've seen were on the on the cuff.

 

Here is a link to the example that used to be in my collection.

 

[url=http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/156301-americal-division-uniform/http://]http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/156301-americal-division-uniform/

 

 

Josh A.

 

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NGCoastArtillery41

He may haven been in the 23rd infantry. (the Americal Division) they reinforced the 1st Marine Division on Guadalcanal. Some of them wore the 2nd Marine patch to commemorate this. However the ones I've seen were on the on the cuff.

 

Here is a link to the example that used to be in my collection.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/156301-americal-division-uniform/

 

 

Josh A.

 

I do believe he was a member of the Americal... I just thought it was an awesome configuration. Just something that if it didn't have any provenance someone would just discard as put together.

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I have a uniform that looks similar to the one in the photo. It has a name but I have not researched it yet. It has army style ribbons and CIB. Thanks, Eric

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I do believe he was a member of the Americal... I just thought it was an awesome configuration. Just something that if it didn't have any provenance someone would just discard as put together.

.

 

Yep, I nearly passed on the uniform in the link I posted. Thankfully the wonderful members here set me straight, and I ended up getting it for a great price. Selling it is, and probably will be, the biggest regret I have when it comes to collecting.

 

Also I didn't pay attention to who posted this, I have been meaning to message you.

 

Josh A.

 

 

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BelligerentBlue

From what little I know of this. Army does allow/ or allowed veterans of the USMC to wear a division patch and their ribbons. I have a more modern uniform depicting this. The veteran was in the USMC during WWII before crossing over to the Army. But I do believe they are usually worn on the right shoulder when they crossed over. I'm sure someone can chime in to verify or correct me if I'm wrong.

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From what little I know of this. Army does allow/ or allowed veterans of the USMC to wear a division patch and their ribbons. I have a more modern uniform depicting this. The veteran was in the USMC during WWII before crossing over to the Army. But I do believe they are usually worn on the right shoulder when they crossed over. I'm sure someone can chime in to verify or correct me if I'm wrong.

That's correct, check out this, there are a few Marine Corps unit patches seen from the 50s-70s.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/166035-uncommon-and-obscure-combat-patches-being-worn/

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From what little I know of this. Army does allow/ or allowed veterans of the USMC to wear a division patch and their ribbons. I have a more modern uniform depicting this. The veteran was in the USMC during WWII before crossing over to the Army. But I do believe they are usually worn on the right shoulder when they crossed over. I'm sure someone can chime in to verify or correct me if I'm wrong.

 

With regard to the wear of USMC SSI on Army uniforms, no that's not authorized except in a handful of situations.

Excerpted from AR 670-1:

 

28–17. Shoulder sleeve insignia-former wartime service (SSI–FWTS)

a. General. Authorization to wear a shoulder sleeve insignia indicating former wartime service applies only to soldiers who are assigned to U.S. Army units that meet all the following criteria. Soldiers who were prior members of other Services that participated in operations that would otherwise meet the criteria below are not authorized to wear the SSI–FWTS. Wear is reserved for individuals who were members of U.S. Army units during the operations.

b. Authorization. Authorization applies only to members of the Army who were assigned overseas with U.S. Army

organizations during the following periods.

(14) Operation Iraqi Freedom: Soldiers who served with the 1st Marine Division from 19 March 2003 to 21 April 2003 during combat operations in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom are authorized to wear the 1st Marine Division shoulder sleeve insignia as their SSI-FWS.

c. How worn.

(3) Other services. The Department of the Navy, the United States Marine Corps, and the Air Force do not authorize wear of SSI. Therefore, personnel who served in one of the designated areas during one of the specified periods, but who were not members of the U.S. Army, are not authorized to wear the SSI–FWTS on their right shoulder. The only exception to this policy is for U.S. Army members who served with the United States Marines Corps during World War II from 15 March 1943 through 2 September 1946.

 

And ALARACT 178/2010 from 10 JUN 2010:

SUBJECT: CHANGES TO THE WEAR POLICY FOR OTHER SERVICES LOGO PATCHES WORN AS SHOULDER SLEEVE INSIGNIAFORMER WARTIME SERVICE (SSIFWTS)

1. SOLDIERS WHO SERVED WITH UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS (USMC) UNITS DURING OPERATIONS THAT MEET THE CRITERIA OUTLINED IN AR 6701, PARAGRAPH 2817 WHO HAVE BEEN GRANTED WRITTEN APPROVAL BY THE DCS, ARMY G1 OR A DELEGATED REPRESENTATIVE ARE AUTHORIZED TO CONTINUE WEARING THAT USMC LOGO PATCH AS THEIR SSIFWTS.

2. IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE UNIT HERITAGE, UNITS COMPANY LEVEL OR HIGHER THAT ARE ATTACHED OR UNDER THE OPERATIONAL CONTROL OF USMC DEPLOYED UNITS WILL NO LONGER BE GRANTED AN EXCEPTION TO POLICY TO WEAR USMC LOGO PATCHES AS THEIR SSIFWTS. THIS POLICY IS EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY.

3. INDIVIDUALS WHO SERVE WITH USMC HEADQUARTERS AS INDIVIDUAL AUGMENTEES ON STAFF WILL STILL BE AUTHORIZED TO WEAR USMC LOGO PATCHES.

 

To recap: the Army only authorizes soldiers who served with the USMC in either WWII, the 1st MARDIV during OIF, or who were locally authorized during OIF or OEF and then granted a limited exception to policy, to wear any USMC SSI. The Army does NOT authorize former members of the USMC to wear the insignia. And yes, I know this policy has been ignored for years, in fact, I’ve seen it ignored in person. The wear of USMC SSI by soldiers became a fad during OIF and the whole thing got completely out of hand. Regardless, the Army never authorized former Marine’s to wear any USMC SSI, ever.

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Additionally, as the USMC SSI are indeed USMC, and haven't been authorized since 1947, I believe they have technically been unauthorized on Army personnel since forever. That being said, I've seen both 1st and 2nd MarDiv patches worn by soldiers in Iraq. I heard about this being unauthorized back in 2005 or 2006 in Iraq. We were at a National Guard FOB, and their units were constantly 'awarding' us their combat patches in, as our CO put it, an attempt to get us to reciprocate because they really wanted our combat patches as well. Joke was ultimately on them, as we fell under the MEB, not Division at the time and the MEB never had a patch as it didn't exist during the era of patches

 

I must have 2 or 3 certificates from the Army authorizing combat patches, but as I'll never be transferring to that side of the tracks, they're just pieces of paper. USMC won't even run them into our OMPF's

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