pink Posted March 4, 2014 Share #1 Posted March 4, 2014 Am seeing all kinds of metal insignia being sold online as 'Bannerman surplus' and other stories...am more curious about the attachment devices....am told by many old timers that the original brass items had heavier copper loops soldered onto the back of the brass badges (makes sense since the two metals are compatible for soldering) and that the brass wire loops with a bent foot for attaching and the purely straight wires are later 1960's items many made up by Bannerman himself....which I have read that he was just as famous for his repro items... Need some guidance as I want to begin collecting but want to ensure what I am getting is probably period.. Many thanks...I see many great bits of sharing information on here....very important to a rookie.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted March 4, 2014 Share #2 Posted March 4, 2014 It would help if you provided a few links to the items you have questions on, as this is a very broad topic. Unfortunately, there's no "one size fits all" key to determining authenticity. You have to be become familiar with what originals look like and what reproductions look like, and continue learning about them all. (I've been collecting for 50 years and am still trying to figure it all out!) Most of what Bannerman's sold was original surplus. However, they apparently did have original dies for some insignia that they used for restrikes, such as Civil War enlistedman crossed sabers, cannons and the Infantry hunting horn. And also the silver colored 1890's USMC EGA. One piece of insignia I always see people overpaying for is the Bannerman's restrike of the Indian Wars Indian Scout pin (crossed arrows with USS above). But, it's not the Bannerman's stuff you typically have to worry about. Stay away from the metal crossed sabers officer hat insignia mounted on a velvet base with a regimental number in German silver above the sabers. Also many of the Civil War silver corps badges. TONS of fakery going on there. And people pay big bucks for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel griffin Posted March 4, 2014 Share #3 Posted March 4, 2014 Generally Civil War insignia used loops on the reverse, restrikes done by Bannerman's and Stokes-Kirk often use straight brass wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted March 5, 2014 It would help if you provided a few links to the items you have questions on, as this is a very broad topic. Unfortunately, there's no "one size fits all" key to determining authenticity. You have to be become familiar with what originals look like and what reproductions look like, and continue learning about them all. (I've been collecting for 50 years and am still trying to figure it all out!) Most of what Bannerman's sold was original surplus. However, they apparently did have original dies for some insignia that they used for restrikes, such as Civil War enlistedman crossed sabers, cannons and the Infantry hunting horn. And also the silver colored 1890's USMC EGA. One piece of insignia I always see people overpaying for is the Bannerman's restrike of the Indian Wars Indian Scout pin (crossed arrows with USS above). But, it's not the Bannerman's stuff you typically have to worry about. Stay away from the metal crossed sabers officer hat insignia mounted on a velvet base with a regimental number in German silver above the sabers. Also many of the Civil War silver corps badges. TONS of fakery going on there. And people pay big bucks for it. am having a heck of a time doing a pic....send me ur PM and will send it...sorry, tried the resize and no luck...and the pic isn't that big to begin with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marks'militaria Posted March 5, 2014 Share #5 Posted March 5, 2014 Pink, I know which www sites and dealers you are referencing, yes, these guys are fake stuff. (the ...these are bannermans original relics) nonsense.and listen to Griffin post #3. Also, alot of crap Civil War box plates and buckles being offered as genuine era,lol. These are several very GOOD sites that you have to pay to be a member that has ALL known fakes,fantasy/fraud relics being offered as genuine,and have updates of what is on other dealer sites, Several dealers who are on this forum has crap reloics that are being offered as genuine CW, that is why Caveat Emptor is #1 motto to live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted March 5, 2014 Pink, I know which www sites and dealers you are referencing, yes, these guys are fake stuff. (the ...these are bannermans original relics) nonsense.and listen to Griffin post #3. Also, alot of crap Civil War box plates and buckles being offered as genuine era,lol. These are several very GOOD sites that you have to pay to be a member that has ALL known fakes,fantasy/fraud relics being offered as genuine,and have updates of what is on other dealer sites, Several dealers who are on this forum has crap reloics that are being offered as genuine CW, that is why Caveat Emptor is #1 motto to live by. Thanks for the info...can u send me the good sites to see all these bad items etc...any referrals to good sites also appreciated...WOW...this is just about like collecting Third Reich stuff.....and I gave that up 20 years ago.... much appreciated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rogers Posted March 5, 2014 Share #7 Posted March 5, 2014 The new breed of Civil War fakers caught on to the use of loops rather than straight wires on insignia some time ago. Most of those offered in online auctions tend to use rather narrow rounded loops like the later original 1872 cavalry insignia, but they will probably correct this eventually. It used to be that cavalry and artillery insignia were most subject to fakery since the originals brought around $175. Whether because the abundance of fakes depressed those prices or because the internet opened up new selling opportunities, they have expanded their offerings to include Hardee sideplate eagles, a range of fantasy insignia for the Irish Brigade, etc., infantry and cavalry insignia with conjoined unit numbers and company letters, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted March 5, 2014 Share #8 Posted March 5, 2014 Always check the seller's other listed items and past auctions. If an Ebay seller offers numerous varieties of "scarce" CW insignia at seemingly reasonable prices week after week after week, stay away. Nobody has an endless supply of original CW insignia. And, 100% Feedback means NOTHING. (Fake peddlers are quick to offer refunds to the small % of customers who find out something is fake and return it. These sellers don't want to kill their "golden goose.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted March 6, 2014 Thanks to all for your sage advice....what my concerns were as well, and from what some old time collectors told me about the brass wire loops with the foot on one end, and your information, am better armed and advised.....much appreciated.. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted March 6, 2014 Pink, I know which www sites and dealers you are referencing, yes, these guys are fake stuff. (the ...these are bannermans original relics) nonsense.and listen to Griffin post #3. Also, alot of crap Civil War box plates and buckles being offered as genuine era,lol. These are several very GOOD sites that you have to pay to be a member that has ALL known fakes,fantasy/fraud relics being offered as genuine,and have updates of what is on other dealer sites, Several dealers who are on this forum has crap reloics that are being offered as genuine CW, that is why Caveat Emptor is #1 motto to live by. Check this one out...on line on Flea-Bay right now...item 231174046109...a new rectangular badge with little shields...doesn't show anything like that in the Civil War Corp Badge book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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