Mountain & Ski troop equipment

[bilko1]

I'll add my skis and poles.

 

Skis by NORTHLAND 5-43, all the white paint has been removed.

 

Bindings by NORTHLAND, can some one show me what is missing from the bindings [leather straps]?

 

Type I ski poles by NORTHLAND.

 

[Charlie Flick]

I ran across a photo on the web posted by a guy named "Stinkyrat". It is shown below and depicts 2 members of the 10th Mountain Division, presumably at Camp Hale.

 

I noticed the canteen hanging on the rucksack and wondered about it. Is that the proper location for the canteen for mountain troops? How is it attached? I then noticed Post 17 above by Greg of the display, and in the foreground was another rucksack with a canteen mounted in a similar fashion. Can anyone explain how this worked?

 

 

[camopara]

I like that picture as it show the earlier wool ski pants in use!

[Gregory]

I noticed the canteen hanging on the rucksack and wondered about it. Is that the proper location for the canteen for mountain troops? How is it attached? I then noticed Post 17 above by Greg of the display, and in the foreground was another rucksack with a canteen mounted in a similar fashion. Can anyone explain how this worked?

Hello Charlie,

 

I am the last to explain it but perhaps it was no so rare...?

 

Best regards

 

Greg

[TenthA86]

As a Mountain collector for 25 years, doing exhibits for the Army, National Archives & the veterans, maybe I can help. The canteen shown is in the "summer" position on the rucksack. The 2nd & later pattern rucksack has 3 M1910 tabs on the outside for the first aid kit, canteen and e-tool or bayonet. Sounds familiar? That's because a skier cannot ski with a conventional ammo belt - too much stuff swinging around as you ski or climb! In winter, the canteen was stuffed inside the sleeping bag inside the pack - to keep it from freezing.

 

The photo above above is the early pattern ruck - note the wire frame and no provision for the rifle strap. Some great photos above - keep up the good work!

[TenthA86]

The set of skis at the start of this thread is questionable as "issued" skis. Lenght was marked in feet and inches (not cm), as the later post shows (7'6"), and the early pointed tip was not seen even on early issued skis circa 1938. The ridge top was not a standard pattern, but several of the better skiers in the unit had issued skis reworked by Thor Groswald in Denver, to get better flex when they were out. The reworked skis were usually burn-marked "Groswald" on the tip. There should be a 1/4" hole bored close to the tip, to secure the skis to a drying rack in the barracks, and to hlep their use in the field as tent poles, etc. All 10th Mountain skis should have the same type of binding as shown in the 2nd post, and should have steel edges. Leather bindings and no steel edges were reserved for cross-country use only - frequently in WI & MN NG units, Alaska, etc.

[TenthA86]

Regarding the "ridgeback' skis, many of the guys took their issued skis to a guy in Denver who remilled them to make them more limber than the GI boards. They were repainted to match the GI color - ususally only the good skiers went to this expense.

[Tom @ Snake River]

I also question the first skis mentioned in this post. I did restoration work last winter for a private museum with a lot of skis and did the homework on all of them.

The skis mentioned should have a "babbit" cut under neath the binding for the insertion of a leather strap. As steel bindings came into vogue, some had wood fillers inserted.

Also another tell-tale sign would be if the "nippled" wooden skis had steel edges or not. The steel edges of course being newer.

I do own a pair of the std white skis that came out of Fort Lewis marked 1940 and 41 "mismatched".

Of course most skis in the late 30's early 40's were made in the upper midwest and new england by firms started by Scandinavian immigrants.

If these are really Army skis, then I would say they were purchased really early before the later contracts were let out and full filled.

I have been in the ski industry since 1960.

If anyone question my creditentials about early Mtn troops, read the following http://www.snakeriver4x4.com/armybase.html

I own 3 of the 20 existing T-15 weasels.

Not to sound like a poophead but this is a real passion of mine.

[Tom @ Snake River]

Concerning the first mentioned skis, I used the term "babbit", it should be "daido cut".

Aso to tell if these skis had a previous life, the owner should look for other old screw holes to see if another pair of binding had been mounted before the military bindings. But if only a leather strap had been used, look for small brad holes back along where the boot would sit, this is where usually a piece of ribbed rubber would have been tacked down.

[Tom @ Snake River]

Finally found a picture

 

Here is my pair of skis marked 1940 and 1941, next to them is a pair of nipple skis with the small grooves in the top out of the 1920's. There is a daido cut underneath the binding.

The next ski could be 1900 with the leather strap through the daido cut.

The last pair is a pair of LUND's without edges out of the early 1930's.

I never touched the military skis much. The wooden skis out of the 30's looked beautiful with a linseed oil or tung oil treatment.

[BigJohn#3RD]

Please forgive this sidetrack but viewing all the skis and winter wear reminded me of this. I took this photo a couple of years ago at a large WWII air show/reenactors weekend. The 10th Mountain Division had a large display (along with many other units). It was held at Reading, PA and I highly reccomend it to anyone who can make the trek. It's an annual event.

 

Greg

 

When is the next WWII air show? Great looking display!!! Is it possible for you to post more pictures.

Thanks

John

[gunbarrel]

[Greg Sebring]

When is the next WWII air show? Great looking display!!! Is it possible for you to post more pictures.

Thanks

John

 

 

John,

 

I have a few more pictures but they aren't related to the thread topic. It was a rainy day when the family was there and the displays were inside a huge hanger out of the weather. There were extensive encampments and re-enactments both Allied and German. There was a great WWII air show also. It was held in Reading, PA.

 

Here is a link to this years event: http://www.maam.org/maamwwii.html

 

It was well worth the trip inspite of the inclement weather and I would recommend it to anyone that could make it. I don't know if it still exists but there was even a small (French?) village erected complete with fire and bomb damage where re-enactments were held.

 

If you are familiar with the WAF web site, Search there under "Reading, PA" for all kinds of information.

 

Greg

[JimmCapp]

When I was in Alaska at NWTC in 1987 we used a combination downhill/cross-country military ski. When did these come into use?

 

When I joined I was glad to see that the 10th would be more than a light infantry unit and mountain in name only. Every year we traveled up from Ft. Benning to Delanega, GA. to the mountain Ranger camp to practice climbing and rappelling.

We met with a few of the WW2 10th Mtn. veterans as we practiced climbing on Yonah mountain there and we worked some mountaineering training into many of our field deployments. A few squads from each company got to deploy to Camp Carson to train there too.

I was happy to finally do some sking and skijoring in Alaska. I would have been greatly disapointed if we hadn't all learned to ski - with full rucksacks no less.

[10thMountainWWII]

The set of skis at the start of this thread is questionable as "issued" skis. Lenght was marked in feet and inches (not cm), as the later post shows (7'6"), and the early pointed tip was not seen even on early issued skis circa 1938. The ridge top was not a standard pattern, but several of the better skiers in the unit had issued skis reworked by Thor Groswald in Denver, to get better flex when they were out. The reworked skis were usually burn-marked "Groswald" on the tip. There should be a 1/4" hole bored close to the tip, to secure the skis to a drying rack in the barracks, and to hlep their use in the field as tent poles, etc. All 10th Mountain skis should have the same type of binding as shown in the 2nd post, and should have steel edges. Leather bindings and no steel edges were reserved for cross-country use only - frequently in WI & MN NG units, Alaska, etc.

 

You write, "All 10th Mountain skis should have the same type of binding." This is not true. I have a pair of WWII skis that have the rarer "Wedge Bindings" on them that are different from the "Kandahar Bindings."

[TenthA86]

Outstanding - please show us a photo or 3!

 

I stand corrected, as there were several patterns of bindings that were tested at Ft Lewis and Camp Hale, as well as a couple of other locations. The "adopted" binding is the Kandahar type binding, but yes - the Army reportedly did try the "Gerber Wedge" and a couple of other variants of the kandahar binding. Close examination should show if the bindings were original to the skis or added later. (Gerber Bros were in the industry from about 1930 to the mid '50's)

 

The difficulty comes when post war sales of surplus skis hit the market, and skiers and ski schools were able to purchase unissued WWII dated skis for pennies, and mounted available bindings on these skis. Combined with the propensity for some of 10th Mountain guys to buy their own equipment or to deviate the issued equipment opens all kinds of speculation - little of it that can be documented. Buyers be cautious, but don't reject a good pair of skis with this binding.

[10thMountainWWII]

[10thMountainWWII]

[10thMountainWWII]

[10thMountainWWII]

[10thMountainWWII]

[10thMountainWWII]

[10thMountainWWII]

[10thMountainWWII]

[TenthA86]

That's a nice pair of skis with a seldom seen binding. Very good! (and the dates on the skis appears consistant with the reports of testing - Spring of '43)

 

I may see if John Woodward (an officer on the Mountain & Winter Warfare Board in 1943) can clarify anything on the tests - perhaps he can authenticate this pair! I'll post more if I get a confirmation.