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Not Quite Sure: 107th INF CMBT SPT Guidon


peterson45

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I was hunting around on the internet and found this. The question I have, is it real? It is double sided and seems to have usual ware but I have never seem the "CMBT SPT" before. I Know the 107th was a NY National Guard unit and in the 50's was designated a Regimental Combat Team. Could this have been part of 107th while it was RCT? Any information that you could provide would be of great help!

 

Erik

post-26093-0-75938400-1393212146.jpg

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CMBT SPT most likely stands for Combat Support.

 

Despite my best efforts I'm not able to pin down exactly what functions would have been included in the Combat Support element of a 1950's Regimental Combat Team. It may have included a general support artillery unit as well as service units such as maintenance and transportation.

 

Based on your photo I believe your item is real. The wear on it is pretty convincing.

Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

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I believe this Guidon has to be pre 1957, probably mid-ish 50s to 1957-58, after this, the Battle Group was the main Tatical formation in an Infantry Division rather than the Regiment. If this Guidon was used in either the PENTOMIC (1957-63) era, or the latter ROAD (1970s-84) era, it then would have an addtional number on it to signify Battle Group, or Battalion, as in say 1st Battle Group 107th Infantry, this is as we see not present on this Guidon, meaning a Regimental sub unit assigned directly to Regiment, in those two eras, CSCs were Battle Group and or Battalion level units.

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I believe this Guidon has to be pre 1957, probably mid-ish 50s to 1957-58, after this, the Battle Group was the main Tatical formation in an Infantry Division rather than the Regiment. If this Guidon was used in either the PENTOMIC (1957-63) era, or the latter ROAD (1970s-84) era, it then would have an addtional number on it to signify Battle Group, or Battalion, as in say 1st Battle Group 107th Infantry, this is as we see not present on this Guidon, meaning a Regimental sub unit assigned directly to Regiment, in those two eras, CSCs were Battle Group and or Battalion level units.

This may be a silly question to ask but what does CSC stand for?

 

Thank you guys for this information it is really helpful, the 107th was my grandfather's unit and I wanted to make sure that this was the real deal and not some knock off.

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I know not about the Battle Group period, but the "CSC" came in during the VN era. It took the Mortar, Anti-Armor, and Scout Platoons under a new Co HQ that was separate from HQ Co. Later they grew Anti-Air Platoons and some (in Mech Inf only maybe) got Pioneer Platoons.

 

Whether BG or Bn, this unit only had ONE BG/Bn, so they may not have felt the need to put such a number on the guidon.

 

The Company designation is also obviously added on by local means.

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I know not about the Battle Group period, but the "CSC" came in during the VN era. It took the Mortar, Anti-Armor, and Scout Platoons under a new Co HQ that was separate from HQ Co. Later they grew Anti-Air Platoons and some (in Mech Inf only maybe) got Pioneer Platoons.

 

Whether BG or Bn, this unit only had ONE BG/Bn, so they may not have felt the need to put such a number on the guidon.

 

The Company designation is also obviously added on by local means.

When exactly did CSCs come into the Infantry TO&Es John, they did have them during the PENTOMIC era, see FM 7-19 February 1960 here. However their not found after 1963-64 in ROAD CARS Battalions, all organic Heavy Weapons were in Headquarters Companies, which must of given HHC a bloated TO&E, lots of platoons there, probaly around 7 to 8 I would think. In fact later in the 60s there was only E Companies that were in essence the CSCs, and seem seem to appear in 1969 or 1968 on, and here I'm not sure if these were added Army wide at the same time or just intitally added in the RVN.

 

I believe that CSCs had to come out sometime in the 70s, can't find the excat year. But it's Strange, in 1980-81 when I was in the 2/12 Cav 1st Cav Div, we had a CSC, it's guidon just having CS on it if I can recall, but later when I went up to Alaska 81-82, the 4/9 Inf had no CSC, but it did have an E Company. This lead me to conclude all these years later on studying this, is that Mech Inf Battalions had CSCs, while Straight Leg Battalions had E Companies in those days.

 

On the 107th Infantry, in 1957-58 when the unit went CARS it was assigned to the 42nd Inf Div, then it had only one unit, the 1st Battle Group. It seems after ROAD, another unit of the 107th Infantry was added, the 2nd Battalion, so by 1965 there were the 1st and 2nd Battalions 107th Infantry in the Rainbow Division. My general impression is that this Guidon must be a post Korean War one pre PENTOMIC carried however briefly, because barring any particular unit uniqueness in not showing the BG number on their Guidons, I think it would have it's designator on it, IE a 1 for the 1st BG 107th Inf, if this was so, and the 1 was not put on it because there was at the time only one unit of the 107th Inf, then that might mean none of the 1st BG 107th Inf unit Guidons had a 1 on them.

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