types and dimensions of WWII camp/base buildings

[mmerc20]

This is a longshot, but I am doing a little work for the museum non-profit currently and I have been staring at an original map of Camp Butner and trying to figure out what each building is. They all have labels and I know a "B-74" is a 2-story barracks building (28’6”x 89’4”) but I see many others like:

 

 

M-152

M-112

A-5

A-10

M-300

SP-2

RB-4

 

there are others too but they are hard to read. There are also multiple areas called "exchange garden" and I have no idea what those are.

 

I am wanting to possibly find pictures of the above buildings and know dimensions as well.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Mike

[mmerc20]

Oh my god! Look at this resource I found! It was an extensive publication produced in 1991 about Ft. McCoy but has all the information I need about post buildings to include blueprints. Amazing!

http://www.denix.osd.mil/cr/upload/LRM91-0018.PDF

[gwb123]

Just a wild guess, but an "exchange garden" could be an area outside of an exchange where troops could smoke and drink.

 

It was not uncommon in the early 20th Century to refer to small restaurants as "beer gardens" after the German custom.

 

Great resource that you found, by the way.

[El Bibliotecario]

My first thought was also that an exchange garden was a beer garden.

 

As for Ft McCoy, when I was last there in the late 80s the place was a time capsule, a World War II post with no significant changes; as a reserve center it apparently had a low priority for new construction. The same could once be said for Fort Chaffee. If I were interested in WW2 buildings and I lived near one of these places, I'd call the post engineer to find out if the WW2 'temporary' buildings are still intact, then come visiting with camera and tape measure.

 

Ft Leonard Wood is now completely modern construction, but they saved a selection of WW2 temp structures in the museum area. I'm wondering if the curator could be of any help.

 

I imagine there are other posts frozen in time, but these are places of which I personally know.

[gwb123]

When I was a brand new 2nd LT at Aberdeen for my Officer Basic Course, I spent my spare hours as a volunteer platoon leader for one of the AIT training platoons. They were still housed in the WWII wooden barracks, and had the single story company headquarters building we've all seen 1,000 times on TV and the movies. They seemed cozy enough at the time, but not something you'd want to spend your whole career in.

 

When I went back ten years later, they were knocking them down. Newer "dorms" had been built.

 

I got to watch as the local fire department burned one down for practice. From start to finish the old dried out wood, shingles, and waxed floors burned to the ground in about 6 minutes. It would have been a death trap for anyone sleeping on the second floor.

 

As I write this, I believe Indiantown Gap Military Reservation in Pennsylvania still has a wooden structure training area. It is used each year for the annual Battle of the Bulge WWII reenactment. You might contact them for specifications.

 

Based on this video... the area is still there... although not all of it maintained...

 

[airborne53]

hello

you need this manual

 

olivier

[mmerc20]

I have actually stayed in the Indiantown Gap buildings a number of times for army schools, most recently in 2011. I actually emailed the curator of the museum there earlier today since we stay in contact.

 

That is an awesome TM. I just need to track down a copy of that! Any chance you want to part with it?

[gwb123]

That is an awesome TM. I just need to track down a copy of that! Any chance you want to part with it?

 

If that deal doesn't work, it looks like you can order a copy from here: http://www.military-info.com/aphoto/TM%205-280.htm

 

Curiously, if you run TM5-280 it looks like that manual number has been used for a number of publications over the years.

[airborne53]

hello

sorry not for sale but if you need pics

thanks

olivier

[mmerc20]

I am compiling a large list of abbreviations used on maps and blueprints of the different types of buildings but need help determining what a UGH-12 is. For instance, a B-74 is a 74 man enlisted barracks, a M-112 is a 112 man mess hall but no idea what UGH is. I'm pretty sure this type of building is what our museum building is and is a big discovery.

 

Mike

[gwb123]

Guard House?

[mmerc20]

That's not a bad thought, but these buildings are in locations where that wouldn't make sense. Searching online, I was able to decipher a number of them, but this one is unsolved.

 

Mike

[mmerc20]

You're right. UGH is "unit guard house".

 

Thanks

[gwb123]

Just guessing, but it is probably where they assembled the guard shift for the night. They may have been sent out on roving patrols from there, or rotated on and off guard point. It probably had a phone, a stove for warmth, and bunks where the off duty guards may have relaxed between rounds. It probably had a desk for he Sergeant of the Guard.

 

The utility would have been having kept the guard shift out of the barracks so they were maintained at the ready. Also, they wouldn't disturb anyone sleeping in the barracks with their coming and going during the night.

 

UGH-12 suggests it was built for 12 soldiers at a time, which makes sense for a guard mount.

 

Straight out of a WWII movie.

[airborne53]

hello

l check manual with your reference , nothing with this number , perhaps after war number ?
olivier

[mmerc20]

No. It is a wartime number. I know there was a UGH-24 and UGH-36 in existence at other bases ( the 12 was the only type at Butner) but there were also quite a number of them here too. It was an 800 series building and designated 800-1007. There has to be record of this type somewhere. We desperately need the blueprints for a proper restoration.

 

On a side note Oliver, is there the standard chapel (CH-1) in your TM?

 

Mike

[airborne53]

hello

no chapel , but perhaps an other manual exist for continental construction ? mine is for theater of operations

olivier

[P-40Warhawk]

Just a thought, but have you contacted the Engineer museum to inquire if they have any information on the WWII plans you seek?

[mmerc20]

That was a good idea. I emailed them and am waiting for a response.

 

Thanks,

Mike

[jgawne]

I was just talking to a senior guy at Army History about WW2 barracks areas/buildings for location scouting. He says the two best remaining areas are Benning and Leonard Wood. They've build some at Carlisle, but its new built. When I think of ALL the old barracks that used to be everywhere, It's kind fo sad more were not kept. But everything costs money.

[gwb123]

I was just talking to a senior guy at Army History about WW2 barracks areas/buildings for location scouting. He says the two best remaining areas are Benning and Leonard Wood. They've build some at Carlisle, but its new built. When I think of ALL the old barracks that used to be everywhere, It's kind fo sad more were not kept. But everything costs money.

 

Safety is another issue. Over time, some of these buildings, with dried out wood and a build up of floor wax and other materials became firetraps.

 

I was back at Aberdeen P.G. in the mid-1990's for training. I had been there in the late 1970's for my Officer Basic Course, when the old barracks area was still in use. I wandered over to see what remained. They were in the process of tearing them down. The local fire department lit one up for practice. From start to finish it burned to the ground in about 6 minutes. Having slept in some of these, I was stunned. It was then I fully understood why units used to maintain a fire watch at night. Anybody on the second floor would have been lucky to have gotten out alive.

[mmerc20]

Here is a nice site done up about the buildings at Ft. Ord. I am jealous that they still have so many standing!

 

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gregkrenzelok/veterinary%20corp%20in%20ww1/eastgarrisonftordtoday.html

[P-40Warhawk]

That was a good idea. I emailed them and am waiting for a response.

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

Just curious if there was any update.

[mmerc20]

I have a CD of some 700 series buildings in the way but was informed by one historian that the archives should have the completion reports from the Camp. These reports contain photos of every building built along with notes about its construction and total cost.

 

Sounds exciting. I just need to contact NARA now.

Mike

[gwb123]

Looking at the Ft. Ord site, the designation for the Unit Guard House may actually be the number of detainees it can hold.

 

I'd be curious what the real story is on that. You mentioned a UGH-36. Any unit that would need to routinely need to lock up 36 of it's troops is either very large to start with, or has a bit of a discipline problem. But, research will provide the answer.