M56, M67 & ALICE Universal Ammo Pouches

[New Romantic]

1966 dated, no date in the DSA marking

[New Romantic]

Finally 1969 dated, still manufactured after the M16A1 canvas pouches were introduced.

[craig_pickrall]

I just looked through 3 boxes of mag pouches and M16 accessories but did not find any M56 ammo pouches (approximately 75 pouches) with a rivet reinforcement. I did find a couple of other odd ball items that I will post as soon as I get the pics edited.

[New Romantic]

I can think of one photo from 1970 showing US soldiers with the M16 cases.

 

Here's part of the photo showing soldiers of C/54th Inf (Separate) at Pleiku, 12 Feb 1970 from Shelby Stanton's US Army Uniforms of the Vietnam War. The man on the left has the M16A1 pouches and the man to his right has the nylon pouches. Other soldiers in the rest of the photo are similarly equiped.

[craig_pickrall]

While looking for other items I found this ammo pouch and would like to get additional info if anyone knows anything about it. It holds (6) 30 RD M16 mags. I'm not sure if it is Vietnam era or later but it reminds me of the M26 Grenade Pouch which I am also including pics of. The pouch in question has no markings other than the hand written mark visible in the pics.

 

Unknown pouch:

 

 

M26 Grenade Pouch:

 

[craig_pickrall]

I found this while looking too. For want of a better place to put it I thought I would throw it in here. I suspect if someone saw this without the dated instructions they would suspect it was made up and bogus. The 1970 dated instruction sheet helps alot. This was in the sealed plastic bag until I opened it. It is a sling adapter so you can carry the M16 with the sling over your neck and the rifle across your chest. You can bring it into firing position from this carry. It shows the Universal sling being used rather than the so called silent sling that is black nylon.

 

[Justin]

Okay guys thanks for the pics and info, but are we all going to say that Vietnam short ammo pouchs are not being faked?

 

Thanks!

[coolman]

those pouches is a 1973 design...used in the 1975 evacuation of the american embassies in saigon & pnom penh by the marines...you can say is an early alice pouch...the only alice item have seen little action in vietnam-officialy the alice is a 1974 system i dont know whats the first year of use...1977..???

[New Romantic]

Okay guys thanks for the pics and info, but are we all going to say that Vietnam short ammo pouchs are not being faked?

 

Thanks!

 

You don't have to worry about fakes for now. Though they are scarcer than the universal pouches, many are still out there as surplus. Since the pouches you saw were in the movies, Hollywood has extensive resources and the money to get what they need. I don't think they care if the pouches they use are the universal type or not. As long as the pouches are Vietnam era and not ALICE LC-1, the casual movie goer won't notice the difference b/w the M16A1 and universal pouches.

[craig_pickrall]

those pouches is a 1973 design...used in the 1975 evacuation of the american embassies in saigon & pnom penh by the marines...you can say is an early alice pouch...the only alice item have seen little action in vietnam-officialy the alice is a 1974 system i dont know whats the first year of use...1977..???

 

I think you have read something into this that is not there. There was nothing to say this is restricted to Vietnam. We are discussing M56, M67 and ALICE pouches. They were used for a few years before and many years after Vietnam. ALICE gear was in the system in 1972 or 73 I believe. Whether it made it to Vietnam I'm not sure.

[craig_pickrall]

You don't have to worry about fakes for now. Though they are scarcer than the universal pouches, many are still out there as surplus. Since the pouches you saw were in the movies, Hollywood has extensive resources and the money to get what they need. I don't think they care if the pouches they use are the universal type or not. As long as the pouches are Vietnam era and not ALICE LC-1, the casual movie goer won't notice the difference b/w the M16A1 and universal pouches.

 

The universal pouch was much more in use than the short M16 pouch in canvas. It is easy enough to carry 20 rd M16 mags in the larger pouch. You take a M16 mag and fashion a pull tab using GI OD green duct tape and place that in the bottom of the pouch to serve as a spacer. The other 4 M16 mags set at the correct height for easy removal. The larger pouch was used to carry far more than just M16 mags. Since it was an open design it was handy for all sorts of things.

[coolman]

I think you have read something into this that is not there. There was nothing to say this is restricted to Vietnam. We are discussing M56, M67 and ALICE pouches. They were used for a few years before and many years after Vietnam. ALICE gear was in the system in 1972 or 73 I believe. Whether it made it to Vietnam I'm not sure.

i was talking about the alice pouches with internal flaps-these concidered as early alice pouches i think or pre-alice if u like but they came before the rest parts of the alice system-i dont think alice gear came in 1972-sounds too early

u can see US troops in germany in 1981 still with M56 gear! it took long before alice become universal

[craig_pickrall]

i was talking about the alice pouches with internal flaps-these concidered as early alice pouches i think or pre-alice if u like but they came before the rest parts of the alice system-i dont think alice gear came in 1972-sounds too early

u can see US troops in germany in 1981 still with M56 gear! it took long before alice become universal

 

Usually Special Forces, Rangers and the 82nd ABN DIV get the new gear first and possibly the 101st Airmobile DIV. I am going by production dates not when the gear started to be seen in a particular place. I think it was produced starting in 1972 and certainly 73 at the latest.

[coolman]

Usually Special Forces, Rangers and the 82nd ABN DIV get the new gear first and possibly the 101st Airmobile DIV. I am going by production dates not when the gear started to be seen in a particular place. I think it was produced starting in 1972 and certainly 73 at the latest.

ok craig...if you have samples of alice gear dated 1972 & 1973 then you'r right...the earliest belt i have seen is dated 1974...alice gear with date 1972 must be rare

[hotlead]

The 30rd M16 mag pouch with the three internal flaps are actually LINCLOE ( Lightwieght INdividual CLOthing & Equipment ) pouches as adopted by the USMC in 1972. These pouches are the same size and use the same grenade carriage as LC-1 cases, and lead to the design and adoption of ALICE mag pouches. The prevailing thought is that Marines at the US embacy in Saigon in 1975 were issued these ammo cases.

[Justin]

New vietnam movie!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l66QEEVoAhw

 

At 00:35 I think i can see small universal ammo pouchs?

[Keystone]

The only M1972 marked items I've been able to find:

[Keystone]

All identical to the LC-1 stuff:

[Keystone]

The belt and mag pouches are '74 dated. Oddly, the suspenders are dated 1980.

Tim

[Keystone]

I have some of the M1956 field gear dated into the 1970's with a set of 1973 dated suspenders. I've seen the nylon 30 round mag pouches and nylon first aid pouches dated 1973 but none of the other "ALICE" gear dated earlier. The nylon e-tool carrier can be found dated from 1968 to 1974 but I think that was considered part of the Army's "hot weather" equipment.

Tim

[filupe]

Been following this thread with interest. As a slight aside Australia had M-1956 webbing items contract made in the US just before Vietnam (1961 or 1962). These were denoted by a "D-arrow-D" marking where the "US" marking would normally be. So far I have identified the vertical-weave pistol belt, universal pouch, suspenders, compass pouch, canteen cover, sleeping bag carrier and butt-pack as being items produced in this way. In the mid-1960's Australia started manufacturing their own version of the M-1956 webbing. The US contract made stuff was only done for a very short period and these items are extremely hard to locate, even in Australia as most were issued to early deployments to Vietnam.

[hotlead]

Yeah, if I remember right, all the US soldiers in the movie, except Sam, were wearing the short '56 ammo cases

 

The tech advisor must've been sick that day.........

 

BTW, anyone know for sure if the M16 would've been correct for this movie, I always thought those guys landed with M14s.

[Tenboremag]

A mixture of M1956 pouches and Alice gear was still being use by NG into the mid 80's.

I remember turning in my canvas ammo pouches for the new nylon ones that would hold 30 round mags. This is from 1981.

[TAMU97]

Isn't that movie about making of Vietnam movie. And it's comedy

 

But hey! Do you know anything about M1972 marked mag pouches? I had couple and those were exact same as ALICE pouches.

 

OK, maybe this is getting too anal, but I have two sets of ALICE mag pouches, both by the same company (Ideal Belt & Novelty Company) with the same contract number (DLA 100-80-C-3516), but one set has "M1972" in the nomenclature while the other set does not. Weird, huh? Here is the one marked "Case Small Arms Ammunition 30 Rounds Magazine M16 Rifle":

[TAMU97]

And the one marked "Case Small Arms Ammunition 30 Rounds Magazine M16 Rifle M1972":