cutiger83 Posted January 30, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 30, 2014 Recently, I was watching the movie "Memphis Belle". In the movie, the planes circle and make a second bombing run because the target was covered by clouds. Did bombers ever make a second run on the same target? Or would they have proceeded on to a secondary target? Thanks, Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted January 30, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 30, 2014 Hi Kat, Yes it did happen, I can't off hand remember the title of a book I read recently concerning a mission where this happened, if I can get a couple more brain cells working I'll post the title. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted January 30, 2014 Share #3 Posted January 30, 2014 THey would, yes! They would circle....or, like you said, go on to the secondary. I think that was alot of time dependant on the pilot! Or possibly discussed during briefing! Can you imagine getting shot up and missing becasue of clouds and having to do it all over again?!?! Oh the humanity! Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_the_hun84 Posted January 30, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 30, 2014 Great topic, I have always wondered that myself after seeing the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted January 30, 2014 Share #5 Posted January 30, 2014 That's a good question Kat. All to often we over look, or don't want to ask questions that make us look less then smart. You've help educate a lot of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted January 30, 2014 Can you imagine getting shot up and missing becasue of clouds and having to do it all over again?!?! Oh the humanity! Daniel This is why I wondered if it did happen. Matt, I would love to know the name of the book. Thanks a bunch for the help everyone...Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted January 30, 2014 Share #7 Posted January 30, 2014 A different theater, plane, and mission, but the B-29 "Bockscar" had to divert to the secondary target of Nagasaki due to smoke obscuring the primary target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted January 30, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 30, 2014 Kat, I finally got the grey cells working, the book is To Kingdom Come, by Robert J. Mrazek and it tells the story of the mission to Stuttgart on 6 September 1943. The author tells the story through the eyes of several participants from both sides. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted January 30, 2014 Kat, I finally got the grey cells working, the book is To Kingdom Come, by Robert J. Mrazek and it tells the story of the mission to Stuttgart on 6 September 1943. The author tells the story through the eyes of several participants from both sides. Matt. Matt, Thank you very much. I will have to keep an eye out for this book. ...Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted January 30, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 30, 2014 Kat, I finally got the grey cells working, the book is To Kingdom Come, by Robert J. Mrazek and it tells the story of the mission to Stuttgart on 6 September 1943. The author tells the story through the eyes of several participants from both sides. Matt. I will have to check that out. I have the post-war blues of a pilot that made it home from Stuttgart so low on fuel that they threw out everything they could to save weight. They claimed two kills that mission. Pilot made it through without a scratch through the whole war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted January 30, 2014 Share #11 Posted January 30, 2014 THe book Combat Crew also details a crews 25+ missions and there were several occasions that this happened. They also could never land with bombs so it all else failed they would release them of the English Channel before they got back to England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted January 30, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 30, 2014 A different theater, plane, and mission, but the B-29 "Bockscar" had to divert to the secondary target of Nagasaki due to smoke obscuring the primary target. Fantastic little known fact - thank you!! -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Posted January 30, 2014 Share #13 Posted January 30, 2014 Great Information! D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted January 30, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 30, 2014 I had a grouping some time ago from a B-17 group leader. He was awarded the Silver Star for a maneuver he took his whole group on. According to the citation: As they approached the target he saw another group converging on the same target from another direction at the same altitude. They performed an evasive action, flew over the other group as they bombed and managed to come back and bomb the target. I think it was in November 1943 and they had no fighter protection. These guys did what they had to do or what they could do. And if someone had the walnuts to do it and could, they did. Very interesting question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted January 30, 2014 Share #15 Posted January 30, 2014 I will have to check that out. I have the post-war blues of a pilot that made it home from Stuttgart so low on fuel that they threw out everything they could to save weight. They claimed two kills that mission. Pilot made it through without a scratch through the whole war. I have the post war blues too. What are you taking for it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted January 30, 2014 Share #16 Posted January 30, 2014 I have the post war blues too. What are you taking for it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renfield Posted January 30, 2014 Share #17 Posted January 30, 2014 One amazing fact is that once the 8th took to the air only the weather could stop them from their finishing their mission. Those brave men were NEVER stopped by German fighters or flak. They might have 60 planes lost but they always bombed the target. There are so many stories of planes on fire that stayed in formation to make the bomb drop. Their dedication and sense of honor is to be marveled at. That is one reason they hold the place in aviation military history that they do. If hitting the target meant a second run, then that is what they would do. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine O Nine Posted January 30, 2014 Share #18 Posted January 30, 2014 Sometimes not even the weather stopped them! on the 4th of March 1944 the 95th BG flew on to Berlin on their own through dense cloud cover and horrendous weather when everyone else had aborted and became the first group to bomb the city. As you say Steve their dedication and sense of honour really is to be marvelled at. Matt the book you mentioned on the Stuttgart raid do you know if it has any perspectives from the POV of the 92nd BG? Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thwingmarty Posted January 31, 2014 Share #19 Posted January 31, 2014 There were times when they would go over more than twice too. There was at least one instance in the 15th AF where the mission leader, flying in a newer B-17 that had the additional fuel tanks, went over at least three times. Many of the planes on the mission were older ones without the extra tanks and some didn't make it back to base because they didn't have enough fuel to get back after circling the target so many times. It was the last mission that officer ever lead in the 15th, and I believe for his own safety he was transferred elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted January 31, 2014 Share #20 Posted January 31, 2014 Sometimes not even the weather stopped them! on the 4th of March 1944 the 95th BG flew on to Berlin on their own through dense cloud cover and horrendous weather when everyone else had aborted and became the first group to bomb the city. As you say Steve their dedication and sense of honour really is to be marvelled at. Matt the book you mentioned on the Stuttgart raid do you know if it has any perspectives from the POV of the 92nd BG? Tom. If no one adds to the post regarding the focus of the book, I ordered it and it is on its way. I'll chime in, for sure. My guy with the "post-war blues" got the DFC for the above mentioned flying, and was with the 327th SQ, 92nd BG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted January 31, 2014 Share #21 Posted January 31, 2014 As mentioned, it definitely happened quite often. I actually have a B-17 pilots grouping in my collection that went over twice while leading the squadron. He flew with the 2nd bomb group. There are news clippings as well as citations in the grouping that mention it. I shared the group on the forum a couple years back. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted January 31, 2014 Share #22 Posted January 31, 2014 We assume it all boiled down to the value of the Primary target and the chance a quick second pass would be successful due to actual conditions over target. Known as a field decision. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberry 9 Posted January 31, 2014 Share #23 Posted January 31, 2014 Kat, I finally got the grey cells working, the book is To Kingdom Come, by Robert J. Mrazek and it tells the story of the mission to Stuttgart on 6 September 1943. The author tells the story through the eyes of several participants from both sides. Matt. Great book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted January 31, 2014 Share #24 Posted January 31, 2014 As stated it happned a lot.I think its mentioned in the book 12'oclock High also. I recall ny former father in law telling how he circled the target a total of 6 time while waiting for the 3 groups of 6 each of his Mosquito Group to make the run to bomb SHELL HOUSE.He was last in and last out as He was the Group photographer that day.After being over target more than 2 minutes he then had to criss cross the target area twice to photo the damage.Two minutes dont seem long but I bet it was an eternity for him wating to make his run.THey had fighter cover as well in the form of P51s flown by a squadron made up of Belgians. Those early missions were really..really rough.Horendous losses.Daylight bombing was a new concept.Fighter cover wasnt available to and from the target.They hadnt developed the tanks for long range escort.The germans would wait til the fighters turned back.Must have been a very sombre moment watching your cover leave.THe Brits tended to like the night time raids as it was less costly according to the high command. Swienfurt was a very bad day for the 8thAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted January 31, 2014 Share #25 Posted January 31, 2014 Sometimes not even the weather stopped them! on the 4th of March 1944 the 95th BG flew on to Berlin on their own through dense cloud cover and horrendous weather when everyone else had aborted and became the first group to bomb the city. As you say Steve their dedication and sense of honour really is to be marvelled at. Matt the book you mentioned on the Stuttgart raid do you know if it has any perspectives from the POV of the 92nd BG? Tom. Hi Tom, Off hand I don't recall I'm afraid. There are I'm sure small errors in the book, but it's definitely worth reading IMO. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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